Transcript:
Robert: Good afternoon. Yesterday evening I received a call from my brother who lives in Indianapolis. I haven’t spoken to him in fifteen years. The first thing he asked me is, “Robert, are you still good for nothing?” and I said, “Yes I am, thank you.” Then he went on to ask, “Have you accomplished anything worthwhile yet? Are you still a nothing?” So I said, I’ve accomplished nothing, and I am nothing, thank you. Are you something?” He went on to tell me his accomplishments: “I own a hardware store, and I bought a house and I sent my family to college, my son and daughter. I’ve got stocks and bonds. What have you got?” And I said, I’ve got nothing.” So he said, “Why don’t you give it up and start living?” So I paused a moment and I said, “Are you happy?” and there was a long pause. He didn’t answer. So I asked again, “Are you happy?” He changed the subject. Then he started to relate how the IRS was on his back, how his wife was running around with some other guy, and all kinds of troubles. So we ended the conversation saying, “If you couldn’t be good for something, I’d rather be good for nothing.” But I am good for something. I’m good in relieving constipation. Friday a lady called me from San Francisco. I never heard of her before, and she told me, “Robert, you saved my life.” So I said, “I did? That’s interesting.” She said, “Come on Robert, you know you saved my life. Admit it.” So I said, “Tell me what I did.” So she said, “I’ve got your picture hanging in the bathroom.” “That’s nice.” And she went on to explain, “Yesterday morning, I was really constipated…” SH: One look at you… (students laugh) (Robert continues) “…and I thought I was going to die,” she said. “I was turning blue and all kinds of colors. I couldn’t get up and I looked at your picture and I said, “Robert, help me!” And you came out of the picture and you hugged me, and relieved my constipation.” (students laugh) SH: Bravo, you’ve made it Robert. (students laugh) R: So I said, “Well! Isn’t that interesting?” And she told me that I was kidding and knew I did it. She wouldn’t believe it when I told her I didn’t know what she was talking about. This is not the first time I’ve had experience with toilets. About two years ago, at about 12 o’clock, midnight, another lady called me from San Clemente. And she said, “Robert, my toilet is stuffed up, please do something.” So I said, “I think you’ve got the wrong number you want a plumber.” She said, “No, I don’t want a plumber, I want you.” So I said, “You mean you want me to come over with my tool box?” She said, “No, I want you to do something, whatever you have to do.” So I said, “OK,” and she hung up. She called me back the next morning and said, “Thank you Robert. Everything became unplugged in the toilet.” So you see, (students laugh) I’m good for something. SH: The sacred plumber. (laughs) R: Now the question arises, can a Sage be in two places at the same time? Is it possible for somebody to think of a Sage, and be in communication with the Sage physically, yet the Sage is not there, he’s somewhere else? When I was in Benares, in India, I went to see a Jnani that nobody ever heard of, called Swami Brahmadanda, which means, The Staff of God. He has three disciples that had been with him for about 50 years. He was about 90 years old. And I was invited to sit by him. I think I was the first westerner to get that permission. So I sat with him a few days, listening to him say nothing. He was mostly silent. On the third day I was with him he announced to his disciples, three of them were devotees, that his body is in pain, it’s arthritic, but he has work to do. He hasn’t finished his work on this plane. So he’s going to leave his body tomorrow at 3:00, and take on the body of a younger person. He said somebody will slip in the street, it was raining, and will crack his head, but I will take up that body. So I listened as I usually do, and we couldn’t wait for tomorrow to come to see what happened. Nobody cared about the fact that he was going to die. We wanted to see if he could do what he said. (students laugh) So at about 3:00 he was sitting in the lotus posture, he actually stiffened up, and he did die! I felt his pulse; no pulse, pinched him, nothing happened. The body was an empty shell. And we fooled around with his body for about a half hour to see if we could bring him back to life or whatever, nothing. We heard a commotion outside and we went out and sure enough, a young man from Benares had slipped on the wet street and hit his head. There was a crowd gathered and there was a doctor there. He was pronounced dead. All of a sudden, he got up and ran into the forest. Noone has ever heard from him again. Explain that one. There are things going on that are very unusual in this world. Most Westerners never experience those things or come in contact with people who have. There is also the story of a great saint who was passing through the town. And in that particular town there was a snake, Boa Constrictor, who used to devour little children. They beseeched the saint and said, “Master, please help us. We’re all afraid this Boa Constrictor is going to kill our children again and again and again. Can you do something to help us?” So the Master said, “Yes I will.” He went over to the snake and spoke snake language and said, “Snake, I want you to stop devouring these little children in this town. Leave them alone. Promise me that you will.” And the snake said, “Yes, I promise.” He couldn’t say otherwise to the great Sage. Six months passed. And the Sage was going through the town again. He saw a crowd of children, forty or fifty of them, playing in a circle. He went to look. And there was the snake, in the middle of the circle, all bloody. The children were throwing rocks at it, kicking it. The snake was nearly dead. The Saint chased the children away and went over to the snake and said, “What’s the matter with you? Why do you allow yourself to be beaten like this? Why don’t you defend yourself?” So the snake said, “Oh Master, I listened to you, I can’t help it, when you told me not to harm the children. I have become helpless.” Then the Sage said, “You foolish snake, I told you not to bite. Did I tell you not to hiss? And this story is simply the fact that most of us think we have to get into a temper and fight because we’re spiritual. The truth is, we can make a lot of noise and do nothing. When in Rome do what the Romans do. We can put on an act. Sometimes when I go to the bank and I want a loan I put on a three piece suit and a tie, and act normal. They’ll throw me out anyway, but at least I tried. But the reason I’m telling you this story is because this particular Saint who did this thing with the snake was seen at four places at one time, in various different cities in India. People said he couldn’t have been there at this time because he was here. And in another city up north, they said, “No, he was here.” So the question again is, can certain Sages be in three or four places at the same time? The answer is yes. This is a phenomena, but is very, very possible. When you realize your omnipresence, when you have an inkling who you are, that’s all you have to know, who you really are, that you are not the body-mind phenomena, that you are absolute reality, that you are consciousness, that you are undivided. This alone allows you to be present everywhere at the same time, because you are everything. Perhaps that is why the people on the toilet were able to see me, yet I’m not aware of it. I don’t have to be aware of it, due to the fact that to be aware of it I would have to be somebody else. I would have to be the person who is aware, and the person who appears somewhere else. But there is only one. And those of us who have faith in Sages and Saints, can actually talk to them, see them in the physical presence, yet perhaps they have been dead for many years, or they’re also somewhere else in a different country. All these things are possible. When I mentioned also one day here, many times I have visions where I am walking with Ramana Maharshi along the Ganges. And we’re discussing simple things like the weather. This is just another example of the possibility of being in two or three places at the same time. Now a vision is not a dream. A vision is an actual experience. It is a phenomena happening in the phenomenal world. Anything is possible. Never believe that something is impossible, because it limits you. Even if you have not experienced anything yourself, have faith in yourself, that within you are all possibilities. Of course, the first thing you should realize is that there will never be a time when you disappear, or die, because there was never a time when you were born. You have always existed as consciousness, and you will always exist as consciousness. And even if a person is a skeptic, they say, “Well I’m not consciousness, that’s ridiculous. I’m conscious that I’m a body, because I can feel myself and I am conscious of your body, because I see you and I can feel you.” And you can scientifically prove this, that you’re not a body. You can say to such a person, “Are you the same person you were when you were conceived?” When you were conceived you were no larger than the size of a pinhead. Yet it was you. And then when you were a young boy or girl, you were no longer the size of a pinhead, you’ve turned into somebody else. When you were a teenager, you were also someone else. Now you’re a man or a woman or whatever, and you’re someone else again. You are not who you think you are. If I put your body under an electric microscope I would see space and atoms, trillions of atoms revolving in the space, and the space would have tremendous gaps between the atoms. The space is consciousness. The atoms are superimposed on consciousness and they appear to create what you are now. So you see, you’re not really the body. You’re a bunch of atoms. You’re in a state of flux. You’re constantly vibrating. You’re not what you appear to be. So when you identify with your body you’ve got problems. Who can tell me why? Why do you have problems when you identify with the body? SH: You’re in flux. R: Yes exactly that’s the answer. The body is never the same and you will always be disappointed. The body is skinny at one time, then you say, “I’m too thin.” The body becomes fat, you say, “I’m too fat.” The body loses its hair, you say, “I am going bald, I’ve got to do something.” The body becomes old, you say, “I’ve got creaks in my bones.” You’re never happy. You never understand what’s going on. And if you live just to make money and you have lots of possessions, there is nothing wrong with that as I always like to say, possess all you want but never be possessed by your possessions, for if you think something is yours, everything has to change. It might be yours for a short time. Then you have to give it up, either voluntarily or forcefully. And you’re always crying, you’re always bitching, you’re always complaining, you always think something is wrong, but the only thing that is wrong is in your thinking. You are allowing your mind to dictate to you and tell you what’s what. When you finally wake up slightly, you begin to understand that the mind is not your friend. The mind is only a conglomeration of thoughts about the past and worries about the future. That’s all your mind is, thoughts, thoughts about the past and the future. If you listen you become disturbed for you bring the past into the present, and then you become concerned about the future. People read the newspapers about a recession, man’s inhumanity to man, war. Who becomes disturbed? The mind, you can never be disturbed because you are egoless. You are sat-chit-ananda. You are Parabrahman. You refuse to believe that. You still believe that you are human and your name is Mary, or Robert, or John, or Jack or Jane, and you are deeply embedded in that belief system. Therefore you also believe the world is real, conditions are real, the universe is real, and you invent God in your own image and then you pray to this God that you have invented in your own image, just like you’re talking to Santa Claus. You believe in an anthropomorphic God, and you ask God to give you this, and give you that, and take this away from my life, and take this person out of my life, and bring this person in my life. It’s all a very funny game. Yet it helps when you pray for you’re relieving yourself. You’re becoming sort of peaceful, for you believe that this God up in the sky will answer your prayer and make you happy. And many times your prayers are answered. Such is the power of the mind. This mind is very powerful, it appears. It can create things. So you better be careful what you ask for. You might get it. Yet the time comes, in our evolution, when we truly understand what the mind really is. And we begin to observe it, realizing that it functions without us. We begin to watch the mind in action. We watch it making us depressed. We watch it making us angry. We watch it making us happy. We watch ourselves when we accomplish something great, and we think we’re important. Just the watching alone causes you to go further in your evolution. For it shows you that I possibly cannot be the mind for I have been watching all this time. I have been watching my thoughts bring up the past and make me unhappy, bring fears into my life, as if something bad is going to happen in the future if I don’t watch out. We’ve been watching the mind do this to us. Then we finally say to ourselves, “Who is this watcher? Who is this person that has been watching the mind?” We honestly have to say, therefore, “I don’t know. I don’t know who I am. I have no idea who has been watching, but I have to admit ‘I’ have been watching. All these years I thought that when I said ‘I,’ I was referring to my mind. I believed my mind was ‘I.’ But now as I watch myself getting angry, as I watch myself becoming depressed, or becoming happy, I realize that I am separate from my mind. Therefore, “Who am I? Where did I come from? It’s amazing that I am able to watch my mind doing all these things to me. But now I know that there is an ‘I.’ Who is this I? I don’t know. How can I find out?” By becoming silent, through silence. By allowing my mind to empty itself of all thoughts, and as I keep on watching my mind in action, without responding, I notice something very interesting happening to me. I notice that I feel happier. I feel more peaceful and I feel more powerful. I notice that I’ve lost my fears, my frustrations, and even my searching for truth has slowed down, for I am beginning to understand that there is really nothing to search for. It’s all here. Everything I’ve always wanted is here. Amazing discovery. Yet I still don’t know who I am. But I’m beginning to understand that I do not have to know who I am. It is not necessary to know who I am. Do you follow? I doesn’t have to know who it is. What an amazing discovery. I don’t have to go around searching for the I, or wondering who the I was that has been watching the mind in action all these years. I simply have to become still. Be still and know that I am God. And the watching all these years has caused me to become still. In other words, as you practice observation of your thoughts and mindfulness, your mind becomes quieter, and quieter and quieter. And to the extent your mind becomes quieter and quieter, to that extent does your consciousness become revealed to you as absolute reality. Now when we talk about absolute reality, or Parabrahman, there are no words, for everything I would tell you about that would be superfluous. We therefore learn to keep quiet. We no longer get involved in complications. We keep our lifestyle simple. We actually stop worrying about the future, about our existence or about anything else. Something tells us from within that the same power that knows how to make apples grow on apple trees, flowers bloom so beautifully, mangos grow on mango trees, wheat grow in the fields, and yet there’s just enough sun, just enough rain, just enough of everything to sustain and maintain their growth. Something tells me that the same power knows how to take care of me. I can therefore be myself, silence. Silence is consciousness. I no longer have to make something happen, and I no longer have to worry about tomorrow. I no longer have to concern myself with what other people are doing. I can let go of all of this and I will be taken care of. The realization again comes to you that what you call your body is not your body, but is also consciousness. It appears as a body. As you keep evolving you keep seeing consciousness wherever you look, for you have seen your Self as consciousness and you know there is only ultimate oneness. Therefore everything must be your Self. Everything becomes your Self and you are that, and you’re at peace. From that moment on everything takes care of itself. What appears to be your body comes under karmic law, the law of cause and effect. Remember, that’s an appearance, and your body so-called, came to this earth for a specific purpose. It will fulfill its purpose without any help from you. That’s the important part I wish you will remember. You will be fulfilled without thinking, without wanting, without worrying, without any kind of concern. All your needs will be met. Everything will unfold the way it’s supposed to. There are no mistakes. No one came to this earth to suffer. I know there are some of you who believe, “Well I must have committed some great sins in the past, perhaps in previous lives, because I’m sure suffering now.” Are you really suffering? Is there such a thing? Think about that. The only reason you think you are suffering is because the world is not turning the way that you want it to. Isn’t that true? You think you should be this instead of that, you should live here instead of there, you should have this instead of that, and that’s what causes you to suffer. But when you become one-pointed, and focus your attention on your Self – with a capital S – it is virtually impossible to suffer because suffering doesn’t exist. Now you can see, perhaps, why people like Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna, Christ, and many others, who appeared to be suffering when they died, literally told their disciples, “No body suffers. I am not suffering. You’re suffering because you see me suffer.” That’s been difficult to understand up to now, but when you realize that you’re not your body and nothing is the way that it appears, it’s literally easy to understand. So again, the secret is to investigate yourself within yourself. The external world can never prove anything to you. The external world is a world of effects, a world of illusion, a dream, maya, leela, a play. Do not stake your claim in the world. And let’s say that you even have good karma so-to-speak, like they say, and things are relatively fine in your life. You think you’ve got what you want. You’ve got a great job, you’re making a lot of money, you’re living with someone you love, you’ve got a great house, you live in a place where the temperature is always 78 degrees, and you’re relatively happy. But, according to the so called laws of the universe, that has to change, simply because the universe is in a state of flux. Everything must change. If you have not found yourself in this life, and you simply die like the average person, you are going to have continue and experience the opposite of what you have been experiencing. This is the reason you should not just become apathetic to spiritual life because things are going your way, and say like some people say, “Oh, spiritual life is just for people who have problems.” Be careful. Begin within yourself. Realize that you are not the person you think you are. Try to understand every day, “I am not my body-mind. I am not anything I appear to be. Then who am I? I must find out.” And your factory of intelligence is within yourself. All the answers are within yourself. You begin, of course, in the morning, when you try to catch yourself in consciousness. Just before you wake up there’s a gap between sleeping and waking. That gap is your true reality. Try to catch yourself in that gap, just in the moment you open your eyes, before your mind takes over. It is absolute nothingness. That nothingness is the absolute reality. As soon as your mind takes over, ‘I’ takes over, and that spoils it, for you say to yourself, “I am awake.” And then your day begins. I have to go to the bathroom, I have to eat breakfast, I have to get dressed, I have to hurry to go to work. I have to do this and I have to do that, and you’re lost in the day. But if you saw yourself as consciousness and you were able to see the gap between sleeping and waking, you will be in bliss all day, total bliss. Then, when you go to sleep you do the same thing. You try to find that gap between waking and sleeping just as you are falling asleep. There is a gap just before you actually fall asleep. That gap is who you really are. That gap is consciousness. It is absolute awareness. It is nirvana. It is you. It is I am that I am. As you keep searching for the gap you will find it. If you remember to do it when you got to sleep and when you get up. And you continue when you first get up. You say, “I am awake. Who is the I? I dreamt, I slept, now I am awake.” If you glimpse the gap you will realize that that gap is also called the fourth state of consciousness. Sleeping, dreaming, awakefulness and the gap is the fourth state. It is your reality. Even being intellectually aware of this helps. So you say, “I know that there is a gap there and I haven’t caught it yet. So I can ask myself, who is the I that slept, who is the I that dreamt? Who is the I that’s awake? Who is the I that’s looking for the gap? It’s the same I. From whence did it arise? It seems to arise when I wake up and it subsides when I go to sleep. Where does it go? It goes into the gap. Into that space between sleeping and waking and waking and sleeping. And also when I go to sleep, ‘I’ think. I think about my problems, I think about my days work, I think about people, I think about everything. The ‘I’ is doing all of this. All of a sudden as I’m falling asleep the I begins to weaken. I stop thinking. Where does the ‘I’ go? It goes into the gap.” So you think of this in the morning as you get up. And you continue by saying, “Well who is this I? Who am I? What am I? This I, I, I is always available for me.” During the day you follow the ‘I’ and you find out you’re saying, “I feel good, I feel bad, I feel angry, I feel upset, I feel rich, I feel poor, I feel this and I feel that. Who feels? ‘I.’ Can there be a time when I do not feel?” And something will say to you, “When you get rid of the I you will no longer need to feel anything. You will be in the gap.” So you start to work with the I to get rid of it. And you get rid of it by following it to its source. The source is the gap. The source is consciousness. You do this by simply asking the question, “Where did the I come from? What is the I?” When you do this often enough everyday, everyday, awareness will start to come to you. Awareness will open up to you. You will begin to realize that everything you talk about is actually attached to the ‘I.’ ‘I‘ is the first pronoun. Everything else comes after that. To be upset you have to say, “I’m upset.” You can’t just say, “upset.” For you laugh at yourself and you won’t be upset. But when you say, “I am upset.” Then you start to feel bad. You begin to see that everything is attached to this ‘I.’ And you hold on to the ‘I.’ You do not concentrate on ‘I’ you concentrate on consciousness the source. You follow the ‘I’ deep into the heart. You do this by diving deep within yourself and inquiring, “For whom is the I?” or saying, “Who am I?” Then you take a pause and you say, “Who am I?” again and again and again and again. Pretty soon you will identify the pauses in between I’s with the same gap between sleeping and waking and waking and sleeping. And everything will merge and you will become free. And you will be yourself and you will live happily ever after, and that’s it. So now let’s do a little chanting. (chanting) Any questions? Feel free to ask anything you like. Bob? SB: When you call for us to awaken are you saying that we should awaken to consciousness? Wake up from being a mind and awaken to consciousness, awaken to silence? R: Wake up to your Self. Wake up to who you really are. Wake up to peace, to happiness, to joy, to bliss. Wake up to your real nature. Your real nature is love. Wake up to that. Everything else that you experience with your body and your mind is false. And so when you wake up, you realize that I am absolute intelligence, absolute reality, I am that I am, sat-chit-ananda, Parabrahman and that means happiness. So every cell inside of your body, so-to-speak, tingles with happiness when you wake up. Wake up to your own happiness. Discard your thoughts, discard your body, your mind and be happy forever. Wake up. SJ: Is it true that after you experience your Self like that, you experience everything else the same. Made up of that same substance? R: When you experience yourself as sat-chit-ananda, you realize that this is your nature as omnipresence. You are no longer an individual. Your individuality has merged into Brahman. And the whole universe appears as consciousness. So you are no longer Jay, and you no longer have the problems and the attitudes that Jay used to have. You’re free, you are the universe, you are the source of all creation. Nothing! You become nothing. When some one tells you, “You’re good for nothing,” you say, “Thank you.” (laughter) SJ: Another word for nothing would be everything. Is that true? R: Well you are not everything because you are no-thing. (SJ: Which allows you to be everything in consciousness?) Yes, you realize that everything is a superimposition on you. Like the markings on the blackboard. You are the chalkboard and everybody draws images on the chalkboard. But you know yourself as the chalkboard and as the images. Only you realize that the images on the chalkboard are not real because they can be erased, and if you try to draw an image you draw on the chalkboard, if you try to grab it. You grab the chalkboard. It’s impossible to grab the image. There’s only the chalkboard. In the same way you know your Self as consciousness, as absolute reality, and everything else is a reflection. SM: Does enlightenment come all at once or in slow stages? R: It appears to come in slow stages, but the truth is it happens all at once when it happens. As I always tell you the story about the Buddha when he was sitting in meditation under that tree his devotees were around him. And prior to that experience he experienced all kinds of things at all kinds of levels. But when he decided to sit for 30 days or even till he died unless something happened, finally after about 24 days or so he opened his eyes. And his devotees asked him, “Master what happened to you? Have you seen God?” he said, “No.” “Have you become enlightened” he said, “No.” “Well what happened” and he simply said, “I am awake.” For there was noone to become enlightened. There was noone left to become anything. Just awake, pure reality. That happens all of a sudden. Just as when you turn on the light in the darkness. The darkness immediately disappears. When you turn on your own light, maya ignorance disappears. Then you are home. It happens when you don’t want it to happen. For as long as you want it to happen you have to get rid of the somebody who wants it to happen. For the person who wants it to happen is keeping you back. And that is the personal ‘I.’ Therefore silence is the best way to wake up, not by chanting mantras or prayers or incantations. Those things may bring you a little peace. SJ: How can it not be like that? It could be like that as well as the experience? R: That leads you to silence. It’s the silence that awakens you. SH: Is all thought then related directly or indirectly to the false notion of the personal I? R: Yes, all thought is false. When you believe you are the personal I then you think. Because the thinking is of the ‘I.’ I think. I’m thinking about this and I’m thinking about that. (SH: No I, no thought?) Exactly, when the I goes everything else goes. When the I goes there is emptiness. It’s like cleaning out your drawer. Everything has to be cleaned out of it before you can have an empty drawer. In the same way your mind has to be completely clear before the Self emerges. And you do that by getting rid of the personal I. (SH: And that is through persistent observation of the minds activity as ego right?) Yes, by watching, by inquiring, by being observant, everything will happen by itself. SG: The silence is a little bit like a shifting ground for everything. Your silent and you awaken and you go into sleep and sleep to the dream and silence there is always that silence where the shift is taking place between states of ego? R: Not really, in the silence, there is no thing happening. The silence is consciousness. And consciousness is self-contained. Consciousness is not the cause of anything but itself. Everything else is an illusion. (SH: Does it cause itself?) It only knows itself. (SH: It doesn’t need a cause?) No. It’s self-contained. (SH: You said it causes itself?) It causes itself to be itself but what I actually mean is it is self-contained and knows itself. SJ: Is it like recognizing itself? (R: It knows itself as itself, but as nothing else.) SH: But that’s a little different from causing itself? (R: It doesn’t actually cause anything.) So it doesn’t cause anything?) (R: No it knows itself.) SJ: And when we come back to our little self, then we recognize that we recognized that silence? (R: No, you don’t come back to your little self.) Okay. (R: If you come back to your little self you will never experience anything else except intellectually. There is no coming back. The point of no return. There is no where to come back to it’s been destroyed.) Even if one just gets a glimpse of it? (R: If you get into the highest revelation of the truth and you become a living embodiment of the truth. Your body is gone, your thoughts are gone, the I is gone there is noone to come back to, it’s all finished.) So we do seem to get glimpses of it? (R: You get a glimpse of it but you don’t get a total reality.) Yeah, enough to talk about it. (R: Yes. The total reality is the point of no return. SA: How much is the freedom going to be? R: As much as you want to spend. By spend I mean giving up your ego. How bad do you want to give up your ego. Some of us are so caught up into our lives that we think are important, that we’re actually afraid to give up the ego in its entirety. Because we are afraid of the unknown. We say something like this to ourselves, “At least now I know where I am and what I’ve got, or with who I’m with. But if I give everything up, I might just be nothing at all.” But, the nothing at all is God, what you call God. The nothing at all is bliss. It is something that cannot be explained or cannot be defined. But if really knew what it was you would fight like hell to get there. SJ: Robert from the bottom of all of our hearts we appreciate you coming so much. Sacrificing to come here to teach us. (R: It’s nothing.) (pause) SF: Is this the silence I’m hearing? (R: Are you hearing the silence? Don’t ask me, ask yourself.) SE: So your true nature is most easily grasped in the transition states between waking and sleeping. Between deep sleep and dreaming. (R: Yes.) And it’s always there potentially. (R: Yes.) In those pauses. The body-mind mechanism can most easily become aware of consciousness itself or its true nature at which time it ends because it seems like a busy work and it no longer has to do that? R: Yes. As you focus on that gap everyday the gap will become wider and wider and wider. Until you get the full meaning of it as absolute reality. Then you no longer come back. (SE: It’s like a fault line where consciousness or where the truth can come through more easily than when you’re fully conditioned during the middle of the day when I’m working or doing something like that?) You can say that, yes. SJ: And that we realize that is who we are rather than the body-mind? R: Yes. You begin to feel it greater and greater as you keep experiencing and as you keep practicing. (SH: And that continually erodes and burns away the illusion of being separate?) Yes it does. Your body consciousness begins to lessen and lessen and the gap becomes larger and larger. (SK: That is when you begin to become good for nothing?) (laughs) Yes then you become a good for nothing. SF: When you talk about the gap getting larger and larger you mean it gets more intense not that it lasts longer in time? R: You are beginning to lose yourself in the gap. And you are losing all your materiality and your mind. So when someone tells you, “you’re losing your mind,” that’s another compliment. Just like you are good for nothing so say thank you. And they say, “You’re losing your mind Fred!” say, “thank you” (SF: You’ve started it long ago.) That is what I’ve been trying to do. I’ve been working it for years. (SF: When you’re using “who am I?” You put your attention on the pause that follows?) Your attention’s on the pause, the pause is the source. So you ask, “Who am I?” and you wait. You ask again and you wait. You ask again and you wait. And something interesting will happen after a while. The pauses will become larger and larger just like the gap and you will begin to feel a bliss and a happiness and a joy. It will give you an idea that that’s you’re about to go. Until you jump in completely and become free. SE: So the same kind of pause between the breaths. So when you practice I-am there is also the transition at both ends of the breath? It’s much smaller it’s harder to grasp. R: Yes. When you inhale and say, “I” and you exhale and you say, “am” the same gap is in between I-am. There are so many things you can do, but you have to do it. SB: Robert you’ve said also in between the thoughts? R: In between the thoughts, exactly. Your job is to become aware of these things. Not when you go home from here, you start worrying about yourself and your body and your image and everything else. Forget about yourself and remember the things we learn here. SB: Last night I was listening to music. Funny thing is when I got home from work I was really tired. I couldn’t even stay up and I put on this fantastic music. And all the tiredness of the body went away and I stayed up all night in ecstasy listening to this music and it was like the mind was gone, I was pure love, pure emptiness and just soaring, soaring, flying. Is this a mental happiness or is this a touch of something? R: It can be mental and can be a touch of something. But why did you come back. See now you are yourself again. (SB: I haven’t got the tape recorder.) That’s what I mean. (SB: I have to carry it with me all the time.) SJ: What’s it called? (SB: You know the phantom of the opera the lady who sang, Sarah Brightman, All I ask of You? She has a new album that just came out and it’s unbelievable.) R: That’s why they say that music soothes the savage beast. It makes you calm and relaxed but you are still a beast. (laughter) (SB: Could that be a trick though if it’s just a mental happiness? Just to pacify the mind maybe not it?) It’s like the tapes we play here. They calm you and make you peaceful while you listen. (SB: So it’s like a jumping off point.) Yes. (SB: It was nice because it showed me something. But why can’t it be like that all the time without the music.) Yes. (SB: It’s just like a place to see and then to jump off from.) So what you should’ve said is, “Why can’t I find the I all the time?” And follow the I to the source. (SB: That felt like the source.) Well it made you happy for a while so that’s good. But it has to go away. But if you find your real source you will be happy all the time. (SB: It seems in that place there is no tiredness, there’s no needs. It’s funny how the mind gets tired and angry and then all of a sudden you put on some great music and you’re not tired and you’re not angry and the whole world is changed and you can stay up forever.) Because you are in another vibration that feels good to you but it’s temporary. Let’s sing another song. (After music played) Is there anything else you would like to talk about, say, ask? SB: Robert talk about the silence. Does the silence have to be a certain purity of depth of silence absoluteness before it happens? R: The true silence is when you’ve dived deep, deep within yourself and you’ve passed all the material world and all of the states of your consciousness, (that you call your consciousness), and all your karma and the whole universe is gone behind, you’ve left it behind. Then you are in the true silence. The true silence is not quietness. It is absolute reality. (SB: Is that the true satsang also?) Sure a satsang is silence. SH: Always reside in that silence or is there something going on? (R: Yeah.) I mean it isn’t silent when we’re talking and when you are talking, a disturbance to the airways? R: It appears that’s how it seems. That is how it appears. (SH: Well there is a disturbance to the airways? Otherwise I wouldn’t hear you.) For whom? For whom is there a disturbance? (SH: Umm, for noone I guess) That’s right. (SH: But the motion is there?) There appears to be a disturbance. (SH: There appears to be motion.) Just like there appears to be a body. There appears to be thoughts and there appears to be a personal I. It’s all the same. SE: The gap is always there, it’s just that at certain moments there is nothing but the gap? (R: Yes.) And that’s what we have to become attune to? The nothing but the gap states. Then you become aware of it at all times. (R: You have to become nothing. You’re right!) SH: Or realize that you are the gap? (R: You can do that too.) That’s all there is? (R: That’s it!) That’s awareness full stop! R: Right, there is nothing else. It’s all Henry. Henry is all there is. (laughter) SB: When you first started you said the atoms were superimposed on consciousness. That implies two, atoms and consciousness? R: Everything is in the same category, I. It all belongs to the personal I. The Atoms are attached to the personal I, the molecules. (SB: But what are they?) The cells. (SB: Are the atoms consciousness modified?) No. (SB: But what are they?) The atoms are like the body. They’re an appearance. (SB: So it doesn’t really exist. But it is consciousness? Is consciousness an emotion or is consciousness at rest?) It’s an optical illusion. The only thing that is true is yourself, which is consciousness. Everything else is not here. But appears to be here. Like a dream. That includes your atoms, your bones, your lungs, everything. SJ: Robert, it sounds a little bit like either the most advanced way to look at it or a very sloppy way to look at it? (R: Well you can look at it anyway you like.) Well what I mean is, this chair here. It has the form of a chair it appears as a chair but it’s consciousness. (R: Everything is consciousness.) It is consciousness? So it is not per se that this is a dream or an illusion unless it’s on the highest level or like I say sloppy. Because how can people if they need a bridge understand what is happening? If this is an illusion, if this is a chair, consciousness is taking appearance of a chair. R: As long as you believe that you are the body-mind, then you look at a chair and the chair feels solid. And you believe the chair is a chair. So you’re saying it’s consciousness but that’s just intellectual. (SJ: No I mean the experience of it as consciousness.) There is only consciousness. That’s all. (SJ: But if there is only consciousness and it didn’t even take on the appearance of form, then I don’t see how you can walk with the body and walk from one place to another.) Well, you can’t see. (SJ: Yeah.) That doesn’t mean it is not so. It’s like when you are having a dream, and all these things are happening in the dream. And I tell you the dream doesn’t exist and everything you dream is false. And you tell me no. You tell me the same thing you are telling me now. This is a chair and it must be consciousness. So I’m saying consciousness is all that there is, and then you wake up, it’s all gone. (SJ: Wake up and the dream is gone.) The dream is gone, everything is gone. SB: So we can’t really understand it until we wake up. (R: That’s right.) And consciousness wakes up to itself? (R: Exactly now you got it!) SK: Where does love come in to this? R: Love is another name for consciousness, but not the love that you know. It is a love that cannot be explained. There’s really a love that is absolute. If you really knew how you were loved you wouldn’t be able to stand it. That’s how powerful it is, but it’s synonymous with consciousness and absolute reality. That’s the reason why you should never think or believe that you are being hurt or there’s anything wrong. That’s blasphemy. What you are really saying is, “I deny consciousness. I deny love.” And you cause yourself to suffer. But when you identify with pure love you are identifying with consciousness. And then everything is okay, just the way it is. SF: (Question about whether everything will occur in its own time.) R: Oh time will take care of itself of course, you’re right. That’s true. Even if you do nothing at all you’ll go through lifetime after lifetime so-it-appears, lifetime after lifetime a million times until you wake up. What we are trying to do here I suppose is awaken to the truth before we leave. SK: What happens to you after you awaken, if you don’t come back here, where do you go? R: When you wake up, you stay where you are. There is nowhere to go, there is nowhere to come back to. You just are. You are your Self, you’re omnipresence. (SK: That’s true when you are not awake also.) Yes, but you don’t know it. It’s only intellectual. When you wake up, you are actually that, and there is really no place to go and no place to come back to. (SK: Is there more fun in that place?) Yes, you are. You just are. You are an embodiment of love, of consciousness, and that embodiment is omnipresence. ST: Robert do you agree with the Kalpas Orionis? R: The Kalpas were written to satisfy the longing for people in as far as years are concerned. How long the universe lasts. How long the body lasts. How many eons it takes for the universe to come back again. And you go into Brahman and Shiva and Vishnu. That’s for the benefit of the people. But in reality it does not exist. SH: When you just are, there is no you. So it’s a misnomer. (R: It’s a misnomer?) Yeah. (R: There is no you to experience anything.) No, so you say then you just are? But there’s no you… (R: There is no you and there’s no are. It’s just a want for a better word. You’re nothing.) A limitation of language? (R: Yes. You become good for nothing.) Yeah so will I, at last. (students laugh) SI: So then what is the reality of will and choice to consciousness? R: The reality of will and choice is an illusion. The only choice you have is not to identify with anything that happens, not to identify with yourself as a body-mind. That’s your only choice you’ve got. Everything else is pre-ordained. (SI: That’s a choice.) What’s a choice? (SI: What you said.) The choice not to identify with anything. Play some more music. (After music is played) The meditation technique we are going to practice now to help us with breathing is: “Who am I? I am Absolute Reality, I am not the body.” And the way you do it is you inhale and you say, “Who am I?” and in that gap you say, “I am absolute reality.” And when you exhale you say, “I am not the body.” So with your respiration again, when you inhale you ask yourself the question, “Who am I?” Before you exhale you say, “I am absolute reality.” When you exhale you say, “I am not the body.” Let’s do that for a while. (pause for practice) Do it in the privacy of your home it helps tremendously. Thank you for coming. Remember to love yourself, to worship yourself, to bow to yourself because Go dwells in you as you. I love you, peace. And that’s all she wrote. (tape ends)