Transcript:
Robert: (tape starts abruptly) Okay, now. In conjunction with that, since we have a few people here today. Let’s talk about the Satguru as compared to the Pseudo-guru. I receive a lot of phone calls from people and they ask me, is this person a real liberated person? Or is that person enlightened? Is this person self-realized? And I really do not know what to say, because I do not give opinions about other people. But there are signs, three basic signs, whereas you can tell a true Master from a false one. And we’ll go into that a little bit. It helps to know these things. I only discuss things like this with my disciples and devotees. So I consider you that, so we’ll discuss it. The first thing to know about this: How you tell if a person is real, is by his teaching. Does he have his own teaching or are his teaching from the scriptures? There are no new teachings. If a teacher tells you, “I’ve had a revelation, I was picked up by a flying saucer and taken to a far away galaxy and they initiated me and told me to go back and save the earth. And they gave me a mantra that I want to share with you, gibberish, gibberish, gibberish, gibberish, gibberish, you say that twenty-five times and you become enlightened.” So if a teacher tells you something like that, be careful. If a teacher has his own teaching be careful. But if a teacher confirms what has always been known. In other words, if a teacher lets you know, that you are the unblemished Self. That you are not the body or what appears to be, but that you are supreme intelligence, absolute reality, ultimate oneness, then you know you’re on the right track because this is not new knowledge. This knowledge can be found in the Upanishads and the Vedas and in the ancient spiritual works. Never let a teacher tell you I’ve discovered my own teaching. That’s one sign. Another sign is: How a teacher lives personally. Investigate, find out. How does the teacher live apart from the teaching? When the teaching is over does the teacher meet certain friends outside and go to the nearest bar and get drunk? Does the teacher smoke ganja? Or go into all kinds of rituals? Find out how the teacher lives. Does the teacher practice the teaching 24 hours a day? Or only when he comes to class? What kind of life does a teacher live? Find out for yourself. And the third point is: Does the teacher charge money for a class? Does he have a weekend seminar where he charges three hundred dollars and tells you you’ll become enlightened over the weekend? Be careful. A true teaching never costs anything, it’s always free, always, and money is never discussed. It is also true, that a Sage gives up everything in order to give the teaching to others. So his disciples and devotees take care of him. And that stems from the heart. But he never asks for money personally. He may ask to help a friend or somebody else, but never for himself. Those are things you have to look into. To discover what is real and what is not. And there are two basic principles of selfrealization. One is atma-vichara, self-inquiry and the other one is Bhakta, devotion, or selfsurrender. By these two methods one may awaken. The first method, self-inquiry is the best but so is self surrender. In self-inquiry, you try to understand who you really are by asking yourself, “Who am I? Who is this? What is real?” By asking yourself those questions you go down to reality and discover truth, what you’ve always been. By following the I, by understanding the Self and abiding in the Self, you ultimately chase away the dark clouds and you shine once again as you always did. The second method is self-surrender, where you surrender completely to your Self which is God. By saying, “Not my will but thine,” and realizing that your Self is God. Your Self is absolute reality. It is your Self that you’ve been looking for all of these years. Your Self is your teacher. Your Self is your guru. Your Self is the ultimate reality. There’s nothing but the Self. And you begin to feel this. And you really want this more than anything else in life. Then you do everything you have to do to go deeper and deeper within yourself and discover your own reality. So let’s do this right now. Let’s close our eyes and if you truly wish to repent just sit in silent meditation and see that perfect reality within. For all manners of error merely arise in erroneous thought. And like the morning dew before the rising sun, can perfectly be eliminated through the benevolent light and wisdom. Who am I? I am none other than the Self. Who is the Self? I Am. Who is I Am? Absolute awareness. Who is absolute awareness? None other than the Self. How do I know the Self? Through silence. How do I achieve silence? By knowing the Self. Again, how do I know the Self? By denying everything else and abiding in reality. How do I abide in reality? By keeping still. as a body. And I never had a body as it were. This appearance of body is an optical illusion. I am beyond body, beyond appearance, beyond thoughts, beyond words. I am the imperishable Self, I am that I am. I am sat-chit-ananda – being, knowledge and bliss. Not now, but every moment of my life, even when I’m not aware of it. Even when my feelings are hurt. Even when I feel depressed. I am still sat-chitananda always, in every situation in every condition. Fire cannot burn the Self, water cannot drown the Self. The Self is permanent, unchanging, eternal, quiet, peaceful, happy. The Self is the witness to all my doings. Yet it doesn’t seem to interfere. It is transcendent and also everything else. The Self is like a self-contained mirror. Images are on the mirror, but are not affected to the Self. The Self is not affected by images. But is always bright and shiny and free. For the Self is like the flow of electricity. Electricity flows through the wires and you can play your radio, your TV, your toaster, but you only see the TV and the toaster. But you only see the TV and the toaster and the radiator. You do not see the electricity. You also can’t see the Self but the Self pervades all things and I am that. But as the Self I am a blessing to the universe. Just by my being, the sun shines, the flowers bloom, the foods grow, animals are born, everything functions. Action take place because of my being. I am grateful for this knowledge. But the world exists because of me. When I sleep the world does not exist, but I still do. Therefore I am greater than the world. I am the Self. I am that which has always been, always will be and never will cease to be. I am pure consciousness, absolute reality. I know that to the extent I still my mind, to that extent will I shine forth as absolute being, fathomless reality, pure intelligence. The mind be still, and know that I am God. For there are no longer thoughts for me. There’s no longer a past or a future. There’s only the eternal now, in which I live move and have my being. And in that now I am awake. Silence is eloquence. Talking is ignorance. (Silence) Om, shanti, shanti, shanti, shanti, peace. Somebody called me on the telephone this morning and asked me the question, “Is a psychic a Sage?” And I said, “Is day, night? Just like day isn’t night, so a psychic is not a Sage. A psychic deals on the relative plain. If you put ten psychics in a room, and ask a question, you’ll get ten different answers. If you put ten Sages in a room and ask a question you’ll get the same answer. For there is one truth and a Sage is tuned into that truth. So they can only give you one answer. I once had a psychic, to one of my meetings and she wanted to give me a reading so I said, “Okay.” So she said, “Robert I see nothing in you.” So I said, “Thank you.” And a couple of months later another psychic gave me a reading. And she said, “Robert you come from a far away planet and people brought you here from that planet centuries ago. Then they touched you on the head and made you forget everything. So now you’re walking around saying, “Who am I?” Trying to find out where you came from? So I said, “Thank you and no thank you.” Channelers, psychics are all in the same category. When there’s no one to channel, where does the sixty-thousand year old man come from? Who created him? Do not get pulled into those things. Stay the way you are, centered. Realize the truth about your Self and become free. Any questions about that? SN: Robert, when you say, “Sit in the silence to find the Self,” naturally a river of thoughts flow, but it’s okay to sit in those thoughts and just watch? R: When you observe your thoughts, you are sitting in the silence. (SN: So that’s okay?) That’s perfect. (SN: Even if you sit day after day and the thoughts may not even slow or anything. But that’s okay because you’re still sitting by yourself?) As long as you’re not identified with the thoughts, let the thoughts come and let them go. As long as you can be the observer of the thoughts, then you’re in the silence. (SN: What if you don’t?) Then you’re who you are. Then you’re human, you’re the body, you’re the mind. (SN: So if you can’t do that practice what do you do?) You ask, “To whom do these thoughts come?” And you punch them down one by one. You keep asking yourself when every thought comes, “To whom does it come? Where did it come from? Who gave it birth?” (SN: And even when you get tired of doing that?) Then observe again, go back to observation. (SN: But you don’t have to feel?) Feel nothing. (SN: You know, like you’re not getting any progress?) On the contrary. (SN: Because the thoughts haven’t stopped flowing, that’s not the idea?) No it’s not. Progress is made when you’re able to absorb your thoughts into the Self. And you absorb your thoughts into the Self by observing your thoughts. The more you’re able to observe the less your mind thinks and your mind begins to slow down. So keep catching yourself over and over again. (SN: So it’s not a matter of stopping your thoughts?) You can’t stop your thoughts at once. But as you observe them, they become less and less. SG: Well will there then come a point where there are no thoughts to stop? R: Of course. That’s the ultimate result, that’s self-realization. When there are no thoughts, empty mind, nobody home. SK: Is realization when no thoughts is permanent or extended. R: If you are really no thoughts, it becomes permanent. If you’re really not thinking, it’s a permanent way. (SK: But is it true that one attains that state in the beginning at short intervals of time.) People are all different. Some people can do it all at once, some people it takes time. But if you want self-realization all thoughts have to cease. And all practices have to make the mind cease thinking. All the practices are to stop your mind from thinking, silence, quietness. When the mind becomes quiescent, still, calm, like a motionless lake, then it reflects the Self. The mind rests in the heart and you find peace, which is your very nature. SH: Who would be stopping the thoughts? R: Nobody. They stop by themselves when you stop thinking. (SH: When you stop thinking?) Then your thoughts stop of their own accord. (SH: How does one stop thinking?) Well then your thoughts keep on. (SN: Um?) Your thoughts keep on going. The stopping stops by itself. (SN: It stops by itself. There’s no one to stop it?) There’s no one to stop it. (SN: Then if there’s someone who stops it, then…) Then you have to get rid of that someone. (SN: That’s the someone that…) That causes it. (SN: The illusory someone?) That someone has to go. (SN: Oh, then they stop of their own accord.) Of their own accord. (SN: Obviously no one can stop them?) No, the harder you try the more thoughts come. So you just give up trying. You just rest in your Self. SH: Who is this you that you’re always referring to as giving up the trying? (R: The self.) Is it the one and only Self that is doing the trying? R: No, the Self has nothing to try, because the Self just is. (SH: Who’s doing the trying?) Nobody. (SH: Nonetheless the trying is there. People are trying to stop their thoughts.) They think it’s like a mirage. They believe somebody exists who’s making them think. Just like there’s no body, there’s no mind. (SH: It’s like shadow boxing.) Exactly. There’s no body, there’s no mind, there’s nobody thinking. It’s all an illusion. But it appears real like hypnosis. Like the sky is blue. Like looking down the railroad tracks and they turn into one track. It’s an optical illusion. Like the mirage in the desert. It’s all the same. There’s nobody thinking. (SH: (laughs) We certainly keep that illusion universally alive.) Because you refuse to give it up. (SH: Like an all day sucker, it’s something that makes you use your mind.) The mind is afraid to let go because it will lose its identity. (SH: Why should there be fear left, that’s your freedom.) Of course, but the mind is used to the everyday occurrences. (SH: What mind?) The mind that you don’t have. (laughter) (SH: Well spoken.) But obviously most people believe they’ve go a mind. (SH: Yeah.) And they go to all the trouble trying to stop it. (SH: It doesn’t work.) No. (SH: That just strengthens the stopping.) Exactly. (SH: The good old famous ego.) What ego, like you say, what ego? (SH: The illusion that we’re all, most all are operating under.) That’s why when you speak words they become limited. You have to say you, me, my, ego, mind. (SH: Language is structured that way.) Of course. (SH: Language is structured according to the illusion.) Exactly. (SH: Too bad.) We would be all better off if we were all deaf and dumb. (laughter) Really. SK: How about the functioning of the brain? R: The brain is part of the body. If you are no body you have no brain. SK: Yeah. Then I have to go to a relative level because absolute level no action takes place, but on a relative level someone asked me to copy a few tapes for them. So I get the tapes, I take them home, I copy them, I call the person up and I arrange to give the tapes. (R: Good, good, keep it up.) (laughter) Or another example is, someone who actually develops their brain, their mind so that they can be more useful in the world? (R: Useful for what?) Maybe that doesn’t matter, let’s say the intentions are spiritual. R: Remember your body is going to do whatever it came here to do whether you like it or not. (SK: And then goes along with the functioning of the brain?) Of course it does. You don’t have to concern yourself with all of that. (SK: But, can one be thoughtless and still manifest and do?) Definitely, of course. (SK: If one is then one doesn’t even contemplate, well today I’m going to do this?) Exactly. (SK: Then what happens?) Your body will do it anyway. SK: It just does it. It seems that there has to be a thought process like get your car keys and put them in your pocket and walk. R: To whom does it seem? To your ego. (SK: Yeah, so that can take place without any thought process?) And it will be done better than if you think. (SK: How about deliberating what book to get to help you in a certain way?) There is a mysterious power that takes care of everything. (SK: So it will be done thoughtlessly.) Everything will be done thoughtlessly. (SK: When you read are there thoughts?) Everything will be done better than you can ever do it yourself. That’s what I mean by total surrender. Give up everything to your Self and forget about everything. That does not mean that action will stop. Action will continue but you will not be a part of it. (SK: The action of reading a book, seems like there would be a thought?) It seems like that to who? (SK: To me.) Who are you? (SK: I’m your servant. (laughs) It seems like that but I guess I don’t know.) Then don’t try to know, just try to be your Self and you be your Self by keeping quiet, not by thinking, thinking, thinking. SH: But in the enlightened state do thoughts also continue just as bodily actions continue? R: They continue momentarily and they go away. (SH: The mind doesn’t freeze and never function again?) No. The mind continues spontaneously. (SH: Yes, to which includes all thoughts that may occur.) The thoughts come and go instantaneously. (SH: Yes and there’s no one to elaborate on any of that.) Yes, Exactly. SK: And that would be called thoughtlessness? (R: Yes.) So it’s some indescribable, something or nothing. R: A Jnani is always centered in the present. There’s no past or future for a Jnani. It’s like Henry says, thoughts come for a second, they go instantaneously they come and go, come and go, come and go. (SK: And that would be called thoughtlessness?) There are no thoughts, nothing holds them. (SK: So that explains it.) SN: Robert when you were talking about the Sages in the beginning and you said, “See what they do with their life.” If they go out and smoke ganja (laughter) or what have you. Isn’t it true that Rama Krishna smoked opium? R: No, it’s just a rumor. (SN: It’s not true?) No. You know who invented stories like that? Opium smokers. (laughter) (SN: I thought it was very odd when I first heard that, I said that doesn’t sound right.) SH: The first time I’d ever heard it was when I was steeped in Rama Krishna when I lived in the Madona Society. R: Oh yeah. There’s all kinds of strange stories about people. It’s the pseudo-gurus that make up stories like that, to justify the smoking of dope. It is true in India you find thousand of Sadhus who smoke ganja, but they’re nothing, they’re nowhere. SN: In the beginning when you were talking about inquiry and devotion. In that handout we got from the last class that Bob picked up at San Diego. (R: Oh yeah.) It described in the article, he called it devotional inquiry. Which I thought was a really a nice way to put it. And one thing that struck me with that article was he said that, “You have to love the Self, in order to be the Self and that is true bhakti.” And I guess when we think of love the Self we don’t think of just mere infatuation, like I love this radio. Meaning love in the true sense of the word. Love above all other things and I think if we love the Self, our Self, above all other things, then we would find that Self. R: He doesn’t mean to love the self that appears to be. (SN: Of course.) To love the Self as you really are because that’s what you are. So love brings it out. (SN: But isn’t finding the Self in proportion to how much love we have for the Self?) Well you can’t find the Self because you never lost it, but what happens when you begin to love you begin to open up. And all of your coatings, so-to-speak, your wrappings, melt, dissolve and you shine once again as you always did, that’s all. SK: What if one does a bhakti practice quite intensely and gets to a pretty high state, then somewhere along the line, through association with other people maybe who are not doing spiritual practice or maybe a different type, somehow doubt seeps into that person and I know the answer to the question but… R: If you get to a really high state, that will never come in. (SK: Yeah, if it was high enough there would be nothing to bring one down.) Of course, exactly. (SK: If one got to such a state that one could still be brought down and gradually through time that happened, then it seems like because that state was attained as soon as one cleared whatever was going on in that respect, someone could quickly go back to that state that one was in?) Well you never really were in that state because if you’re in the higher state as I said, it never goes away. (SK: Well I just mean a state that is somewhat higher than self. (personal self)) Well your practice must have been weak. (repeats) For if your practice is really strong, nothing can take it away. But if you fall back, keep going up again. Pick yourself up, brush yourself off and try all over again. That’s all you can do. SH: Robert, the you, you were referring to there, would be the true Self. You’re addressing the true Self, not the ego? R: Yes. The true Self. For there is only the true Self, why think about anything else. But this is why I always remind you of the difference between a searcher, a disciple and a devotee. A searcher is a person who hasn’t found a path yet. They go from meeting to meeting, different kinds of teachers, different kinds of teachings. From Sufi to Buddhism, from Buddhism to Hinduism, from Hinduism to Advaita and so forth and they never get anywhere. Those are searchers. A disciple is somebody who has found one path, but is still running around to all kinds of different teachers on the same path. And each teacher explains it differently. So they still can’t get anywhere. But a devotee is somebody who gets absorbed in the teacher and becomes the teacher himself, within. Because there’s only one teacher and that’s the Self. And he begins to realize, guru, the Self and the teacher are one. They’re all one person and that’s himself. And they become a devotee to themselves because there’s only one Self. So try to figure out where you come in. Where you’re at. What do you do with the teaching? Remember when you read too many books you get confused because every path is a little different. It’s true they all lead to the same goal, but the methodology is different. And it becomes confusing. But when you stick to one path things happen faster, you have better experiences. What do you think of that? SG: Then can one say that the silence dissolves the need for methodology? (R: Of course.) For any methodology? (R: Of course, it is. That’s the ultimate truth.) SK: So you will be really attaining that truth. (R: If you’d what?) You’d be really attaining that truth. (R: Yes, of course.) Pacify the mind do what not? (R: If you can really stay in the silence then that’s all you need.) That’s really true silence. R: But there are some teachers that go into all kinds of teachings, ancient civilizations, Kabbalah, Egyptian teachings and so forth. Those are all interesting, but they do not lead to enlightenment, they’re just good history. And therefore it depends on what you’re interested in. Are you interested in becoming free in this life or do you still want to play games? It’s up to you. SN: Robert, do you get anything from books at all, in reality? R: In reality, no, but relatively, yes. Because relatively a book should motivate you to do something. (SN: To buy another book. (laughter)) Yeah, unfortunately that’s true. (SH: Like an addiction.) That’s true, you’re right. It’s like drugs. SN: I mean I can look at myself and as you said, I’ve read every book in the world and I can compare myself to ten years ago and where am I compared to ten years ago. And I can continually say, “This is the greatest book, this is the newest, this is the greatest, this is the only book.” But now, only recently I realized that through books alone you can read until doomsday. And I guess unless you do as the book says, I realize that only by sitting in my own awareness does progress come about. Not by reading books at all. In fact by reading the books you’re exciting the mind and that’s just the opposite of what you want to do. (R: That’s true.) I think the best thing that the book can say is shut the book and close the mind. Great book! And in fact even a teacher, do we get anything from teachers at all or is what we get from within our Self? R: The teacher is just to show you that you are the Self. To point the way to who you really are. (SH: But a teacher can be a powerful indicator?) Yes, to an extent. (SH: You are.) I don’t know? SK: But a teacher is obviously much more in a sense that they can give a student a taste of that or just by being in the presence, it animates from the teacher? (R: Everybody’s different.) (tape break starts abruptly with question) SH: …supposed to live with this patriarch and Santa heard one of the Sutras being read and that was it. I don’t know whether that’s true but that’s the story. SK: Did you hear about the story where the teacher grabbed the book and hit his disciple on the head? (R: Sure I heard that too yeah. (laughter) Those things are possible.) SN: Now we know what books are for. SH: Silence the mind. Hit your head hard enough and it silences the mind. (laughter) R: That’s right. (laughs) SK: So the problem if a student sees that the teachers attained by sitting in the room with the teacher and is confused with all this energy that the slight problem that could arise is that it’s being projected out there. In other words a student sees it outside of oneself even though maybe from that source it permeates everywhere. (R: All that helps.) Yeah it helps a lot but it’s still a projection outside, isn’t it? (R: It all helps, it depends on you.) If I’m projecting that the source is here and over there, and I perceive distance then that’s not as desirable as I-am. R: You have to have a great humility, a great compassion. When you become humble and you surrender at the presence of a teacher then things begin to happen. So you have to have a great humility, a great love. And if you have great love for your teacher you have it for your Self. Well, of course it’s the same thing. SK: So the idea is to saturate oneself so much in or settle into the realization of the Self such that one is always with a teacher everywhere one goes. In other words taking what’s understood in satsang with one everywhere we go. R: Well in my own case, Ramana Maharshi is still alive, as me. Because his presence is embedded in my consciousness. There’s only one consciousness. SN: Is the presence of Ramana Maharshi different from the presence of anyone else? R: It depends, you mean in my case? His presence is omnipresent. SK: To the ajnani it’s different right? R: Yes, the presence is everywhere, but you have to able to pick it up. (SK: If one picks it up for whatever reason, does one want to be receptive to pick it up all the time or…?) You have nothing to do with it. It happens because of your devotion. (SK: Okay, in which case…) In which case you pick it up. (SK: And that’s it.) That’s all you need. (SK: And let it go and then if the situation stops, just let it go and just continue on in your practice.) You no longer think about it. You just become it. You become the practice. (SK: And the experience, let’s say that someone experiences the presence of Ramana but there’s no practice being done?) No practice has to be done. The practice is doing you. (SK: Right, oh I see, that’s the sign of the practice doing one.) Yes. (SK: So one just continues the practice and that continues so let the practice do them and not worry or think about it.) Just make it happen and see what happens. Let it happen. (SK: Let it happen or make it happen?) R: Let it happen and see for yourself. It’s like God’s grace. God’s grace is everywhere available. It’s in the air, but there are certain people who pick it up. Those who are attune to it, like a radio station, you have to tune it in finely to the station to get the reception, otherwise you get static. So ajnani’s get static, whereas Jnanis are finely tuned. That’s all. SH: And the fine tuning just occurs on its own spontaneously? R: It occurs because of previous sadhanas in previous lives. Therefore it appears to come spontaneously. (SH: Umm.) But you’ve earned it sometime. (SH: But there’s no one who can do anything about it?) No. (SH: That just gets in the way further?) Yes. (SH: Prolongs the agony.) (laughs) True. (SG: Can one say that it occurs spontaneously because there’s really no previous lives?) In reality there are no previous lives, of course not. In reality you’re not trying to achieve anything. (SG: Right.) But can you absorb that? If you can absorb that there’s nothing to say. See that’s what I mean when we read too many books. We memorize all kinds of passages and we can speak with eloquence about buddhism, about Jnana, about realization and yet we never experience it for ourselves. We can just talk about it and talk about it and talk about it. So we have to catch ourselves doing that and stop. And develop a total humility, a loving kindness, a total surrender. Then everything will happen of its own accord. (break in tape as Robert continues) R: I am not the body. With your breathing do this. Inhale, ask yourself “Who am I?” Before you exhale say, “I Am absolute reality.” And exhale say, “I am not the body.” (silence then Robert continues) Shanti om peace. How do you feel? Is the meditation too much for you or we got used to it? (SK: It’s the same as sitting here whether there’s a meditation period or not.) Sometimes I’ll do it for six hours. Are you up to it, Henry? Are you up to sitting in the silence for six hours? (SH: I doubt it. (laughter) An hour or two that’s okay, six hours that’s beyond my — well probably could.) I’m sure you could. (SH: I just haven’t managed it.) Just forget about your body and become absorbed. (tape damage then Robert continues) R: They think they have to leave and go. (SK: Someday I’ll have to leave and go, I’ve got a cat to take care of.) The mind is so strong, as long as you believe you have to go somewhere you go. You create your own heaven and your own hell and that’s where you go. (SK: And so we’re going to go nowhere, huh? (laughter) Is it true we’re going to go nowhere?) You can be in limbo. (SK: So is that where we’re going?) Why should you go there? (SK: Maybe I’m going nowhere, so maybe that’ll be limbo.) But nowhere is everywhere. Nowhere is bliss, consciousness. Somewhere is nowhere. The nowhere you’re talking about is some place. But the real nowhere is bliss consciousness. Some people want to live in their bodies for thousands of years and some people want to leave their bodies right now. (SK: Some people want to be fat, some people want to be thin.) That’s right. (SK: Maybe we should just divide it all up equally.) So all these baptists and fundamentalists that believe in heaven and hell are right, because they created it. You go to what you believe. So watch your thoughts. SK: I’ve been going around looking at Ramana’s books. The more I look at them the less I only look at them for the pictures. I looked at the color pictorial book. (R: Oh really?) And it’s got so much. I look at it and I realize it’s formatted and I look at the pictures of all the other people who went to see him and I realize that it’s just another organization (R: Umm.) It’s interesting. (R: It is.) This is my favorite photograph. (R: That’s a good one.) This was in one of the mountain paths that was used. (R: Oh really?) (tape break, Robert continues further.) R: There is no change, what’s to change? Only the relative world changes. (SK: And that doesn’t affect you?) Consciousness has nothing to do with it. Consciousness is changeless. What could it change into? It’s the origin of everything. (SK: What should one do if one gets excited inside?) Inside? (SK: Yeah.) Sing. Yes, sing out, rejoice. (SG: Let it happen. SK: The excitement?) Sure it’s okay. (SK: It could go on inside?) Don’t hold it in you’ll blow up. You’ll explode. There’ll be a pieces of you all over the room. (SK: Sometimes there’s a tendency to get excited from whatever one is doing spiritually because it’s agitation of some kind, the excitement to fulfill it in worldly activity or what not.) Yes that’s true, or you can breath deeply. (SK: Yeah.) Or you can take a cold shower. (SK: Then you get more excited.) No a cold shower slows everything down. (SK: Or else try to recycle it back into ourselves.) (students browsing photographs of Ramana) R: He looks like a westerner here doesn’t he? (SG: Wearing three piece suit.) SK: My teachers teacher, I need to show you a certain picture of him where he’s standing up… (tape break as student continues) …even if it doesn’t turn into light, does it necessarily need to turn into light? R: It doesn’t have to but sometimes it does. But you’re making it happen because you’re feeling it strongly enough. And when you feel the presence strongly enough, you see its true nature which is light. (SN: Really “light” is only a metaphor right?) Yes. (tape ends)