Transcript:
Robert: Ask yourself, “What am I doing here at this satsang?” Why did you come? Ask yourself. Did you come to observe the speaker, to compare him with other speakers, or are you tired of playing games and you want to get on with it? What is the real reason you came tonight? You had nowhere else to go? You saw all the movies, all the TV programs? Looking for a new face? Ask yourself. Your life is very short. What are you doing with it? Unless you awaken in this life, you will come back again and again, and keep playing this game over and over again, until the day comes when you awaken. The only freedom you’ve got is to turn within and not react to conditions. I usually do not talk about myself, but I received an interesting phone call today from a lady in Santa Cruz. She said, “Robert, if you don’t say something about yourself, nobody will know where you’re coming from. They will think you got this information from a book or from another teacher. They will not know it comes directly from the Self.” So I thought about this, and for a few minutes I will discuss my life up to the age of fourteen years old. That should bore you enough. I was born January the 21st in Manhattan, New York. From the very beginning, as far back as I can remember, when I was in my crib, a little man with a gray beard and white hair used to appear before me at the other end of the crib, about two feet long — two feet tall, and speak gibberish to me. I thought this was normal and everybody had that experience. Of course, being a child I didn’t understand anything he said. It’s only in the later years when I started to read books that I realized this person was Sri Bhagvan Ramana Maharshi. But nevertheless he appeared before me until I was about seven years old, then it stopped. Then something very interesting happened to me. Whenever I wanted something, a candy bar, a toy, I would say God’s name three or four times and it would appear from someplace. For instance, if I wanted a candy bar I would say, “God, God, God.” Somebody would bring it to me or it would come from someplace. When I went to school I never used to study. When we had a test I would say, “God, God, God,” and the answers would come. Once I wanted to play the violin and my mother told me that it would be too hard for me to play, so she wouldn’t buy me one. So I said, “God, God, God,” and a few hours later my uncle appeared, who I hadn’t seen in about five years, and he brought me a violin. He thought I needed a violin. And this went on and on while I was going to school. When I was fourteen years old, a strange phenomenon happened. I was in my junior high school class. There were about thirty-five children. The teachers name was Mrs. Riley. She weighed about three-hundred pounds, and when she got angry she used to jump up and down, so of course we used to make her angry. What I would do was I would borrow a bobby pin from a girl and there was a hinge in the back of the seat. I would stick the bobby pin in the hinge and twang it and she would go crazy. She didn’t know where the noise was coming from and she’d jump up and down, a very interesting phenomenon. Anyway, it was the end of the term, and we were taking our finals test. This was a math test. I never studied for it, so I didn’t know anything. So I said, “God, God, God.” Instead of the answers coming, the room became filled with light, a brilliant bright light, a thousand times more brilliant than the sun. It was like an atomic bomb, the light from the bomb, but it was not a burning light. It was a beautiful, bright, shining, warm glow. Just thinking of it now makes me stop and wonder. The whole room was immersed in light, everybody, everything. All of the children seemed to be myriads of light particles, and then I found myself melting, sort of, into radiant being, into consciousness. I merged into consciousness. It was not an out of body experience. An out of body experience is when your soul leaves your body. This was completely different. I realized that I was not my body. What appeared to be my body was not real. And I went beyond the light into pure radiant consciousness. I became omnipresent. My individuality had merged into pure absolute bliss. I expanded, I became the universe. The feeling is indescribable. It was total bliss, total joy. The next thing I remember is the teacher shaking me. All the students had gone. I was the only one left in the class. The teacher was shaking me, and I returned to consciousness, human consciousness. That feeling has never left me. Now what does this have to do with you? Everything, for when I say, “You are absolute reality, absolute bliss,” when I say, “all this is the Self and I am that,” I-am encompasses everybody, everything. “I am that” encompasses the whole universe. I am that, pure intelligence, ultimate reality, sat-chit-ananda, parabrahman. I am speaking from my experience. Death becomes a joke, there is no such thing. Your real nature is immortality. Your real nature is unalloyed happiness, ultimate oneness. This is what you really are. Awaken to it and be free. How do you awaken? Well, in reality, you are already awake, but you are dreaming and you don’t know it. It’s like when you go to sleep and in that dream there’s an earthquake. Everyone is dying all around you, and I come to you and I say, “This is not real. You’re having a dream, don’t you know?” And you tell me, “You’re crazy, Robert. This is not a dream, this is real. Can’t you see the earthquake. Can’t you see people dying all around you?” But I say, “No, it’s a dream!” You refuse to believe me. Then, all of a sudden you wake up, you find yourself in this world. The only difference between this world and the dream world is that this world is a little longer, but it’s a dream. The world is not real by itself. Ultimate reality, pure intelligence, emptiness, space — that is reality. It is like a gigantic screen that takes up the entire universe. That screen is consciousness, and all the worlds, the planets, the suns, people, are all images on the screen. If the screen weren’t there, there could be no images. Therefore, you cannot say that the images are real. They’re only real as long as the screen persists. But if the screen is taken away there’s no place to show the images. In the same way, your true nature is consciousness, pure consciousness. Your body is superimposed on consciousness. You have made the mistake of identifying yourself with the body and mind. Therefore, the body and mind seems to control your life. But as soon as you switch identities, as soon as you begin to identify with consciousness, everything changes for you. You become happy, peaceful, joyous, blissful. It happens by itself. All you’ve got to do is to switch identities, identify with reality. How do you do that? Every image that comes into your mind, you negate it. You realize that’s not the truth, and you ask the question, “To whom does this come? To me.” You hold onto the me. You find the source of me. The source of me is none other than your Self. Once you make the identity and you awaken to your Self, all your problems are over. Think of the problems you’re thinking about right now. Think! Who has a problem? Your real Self cannot have a problem, because that’s bliss consciousness. The problem comes to the ego. Only the ego has a problem, nothing else. Everything else is free, happy, no problems. Find out who you are, discover your Self. Jump within yourself. Be your Self. Become free. Nothing exists as it appears, nothing. Everything is consciousness, and everything is an image superimposed in consciousness. All of your thoughts, whatever is going through your mind, it has no basis, no cause, no ego. Everything you see is a projection of your own mind. You can put a stop to it by finding the source of your thoughts. Where do your thoughts come from? Find out. Go within. Ask yourself. You start in the morning when you first get out of bed. You watch your thoughts. Observe what you’re thinking. Observe what you’re doing. Whatever comes into your mind, ask yourself the question, “To whom does it come? I think this.” Follow the I thought to the source. Hold onto the I and wait. Do nothing. Do absolutely nothing. Keep still. When another thought comes, use the same procedure. “To whom does this come? To me? Who am I?” Follow the I thought to the source. Do nothing. Remain in the silence. Do not try to analyze anything. Do not try to come to any conclusion. If your mind becomes argumentative, ask yourself, “Who is argumentative? I am.” Everything belongs to the I. The whole universe is attached to I. When you find the source of I, everything else disappears. Find the source of the I and become free. Life is really simple. Why make it complicated? Why allow all your thoughts to control you, to control you, to control you? Why do you give in to your thoughts? If you want to become free, you have to stop thinking, completely, totally. When your thoughts come to you, no matter what they tell you, you have to ask yourself, “To whom do these thoughts come? Who gave them birth? I did?” Well, who am I?” Do not allow your thoughts to be your Master. What you call realization is only empty mind. When your mind is empty everything happens by itself. Reality shines forth. When your mind is full of garbage, you become belligerent, arrogant, wild, and you have no peace. So observe yourself, watch your thoughts. See where they lead you. Take control of them, and become free. I am not a lecturer, I do not give speeches, I do not give sermons. I’m only here and I’m available to you. So, if there are any questions, I’ll be happy to answer if I can. Feel free to discuss anything you like about spiritual life. SM: Robert, if this is all a creation of the mind, what about the grand dissolution of everything? Is there any point to that? R: The grand dissolution is also of your mind. Everything that happens, everything, is a projection and manifestation of your mind. When you realize that you are not the body-mind phenomenon, everything stops. The whole game stops and you become free. For that person there is no such thing as birth or death. Everything remains still and quiet. Everything stops. There is no dissolution. There is no desecration. There is only peace. But you have to stop your mind from thinking, and the best and fastest way to do that is through atma-vichara, self-inquiry. That’s the fastest way as far as I know. You simply ask yourself the question, “For whom is desolation? Who experiences these things?” Find out, and you’ll find that you are ultimately free. You have always been free. You have always been the Self, free, blissful and happy. That is your real nature. Even as I talk to you, look at the thoughts going through your mind. Look at all these thoughts that are going through your mind. Why do you allow them to control you? Why? It only hurts you, nobody else. Only the thinker suffers. Of course, it’s difficult to stop thinking, but by asking the question, “To whom do these thoughts come?” your mind begins to slow down and finally merges in your heart, and then you are no longer controlled by the mind. You are no longer controlled by anything. Your individuality will merge into the infinite, and you will become free. SB: Robert, how is it that these little subtle thoughts have the power to obstruct? R: They don’t, because your thoughts do not exist. How can they have power? Only what is real has power, and what is real is consciousness, absolute reality, total awareness. Thoughts have no power. They appear to have power. You have given them the power. You yourself have given your thoughts power by believing in them, by worshiping them, by doing what they command. Your thoughts tell you to go kill, you go kill. They say, “Go scream,” you go scream, “go be belligerent,” you go and become belligerent. You are controlled by your thoughts. But the wise person will stop, and think, and look within and ask, “To whom do these thoughts come? Where do they come from?” Find out and you will realize they never existed to begin with. It’s all an optical illusion. Just like the rope and the snake you’ve all heard about. You think a rope is a snake because it’s dark and you can’t see, but once you find out the truth, that it’s only a rope, you will never be fooled again. You will never be afraid again. So the thoughts are like the rope and the snake. They have no power, but you fear your thoughts, therefore you give them power. Once you realize they are non-entities, they are nothing, then you become yourself, and you’re free. (silence) SG: Our problems are only existent for the ego. Isn’t it the ego that takes us to the spiritual path or practices? R: The ego appears to practice and take on a spiritual path, but there is something deeper than the ego. The Self is pushing you from itself. The ego tries to resist. The ego is for one reason only, to destroy itself. Only when you destroy your ego, do you use your ego to do that. That’s the only purpose it serves. Otherwise it controls you totally and completely. The ego and the mind are synonymous. The mind is only a conglomeration of thoughts about the past and worries about the future, that’s all the mind is. The ego enhances the mind. They’re both the same. The ego is like the light for the mind, but by selfinquiry the light is extinguished so the mind vanishes of its own accord and you become free. Do not give your ego power by believing in it. Look at it like you do outside in the sky. When you say the sky is blue, everybody will agree with me that the sky is blue. But when you investigate you find that there is no sky and there’s no blue. It’s just space. In the same instance, everyone believes there is an ego, but upon investigation you will find out that it never existed. It does not exist. Only the Self exists, and you are that. So investigate, find out for yourself. Don’t believe a word I say. Check it out, experiment. Find out and see. (tape breaks here) SL: What can I do when I see the misery and torture in the world? What good is it just to concentrate on my mind. Must I not forgo this indulgence in the self, by looking at myself, and help people in the world? R: You are omnipresent reality, and you are compassion. It is only when you know your Self that you can be an asset to others. When you become the embodiment of love which is also consciousness, everyone around you feels it and that’s how you make this a better world in which to live. However, in the beginning you don’t confuse yourself with that. If you want to help the world and help others, first find out the truth about yourself. If you don’t, it’s the blind leading the blind and everybody falls into the ditch. Now, again, when you find out the truth about yourself, yourself is not an individual. It is omnipresence, so you become the universe. Therefore, you can say all this is the Self and I am that. Take a look at your dreams. Where does a dream come from? It comes from your mind. You’re sleeping and you’re dreaming. It all emanates out of your mind, and in that dream you’re riding in a jet plane, you go from country to country, you take up golf, you get married, you have children, you grow old and you die. All that is in the dream. Where did the dream really come from? Your mind, and so it is in real life. “Who is dreaming about wars, who feels this, who sees this, who’s afraid?” Ask yourself, find out, investigate, and you will amazed what you find. (tape starts here again) R: When you speak of love and compassion, do normal people really have love and compassion? They only have love when somebody gives them something. If a person loves you, you say you love them. When they leave you for somebody else, you hate them. So the love and hate come. They’re two sides of the same coin but real love is beyond human love. Real love is the infinite. It cannot be described. It’s consciousness. It’s absolute reality. Real love is your real nature, and you can never really know how to love until you know who you are. SL: I feel that when I practice, I go beyond my mind, and you feel peaceful. How do you go beyond that? R: If you really looked at your mind, and your mind really disappeared, there would be no need of the question because you would feel ultimate peace. But what really happens to some of us is that we think we’re going beyond the mind, we believe we’re looking at the mind, but something is wrong because we don’t. Once we really observe the mind and realize it’s no thing, we are already beyond it, we’re free and happy. But sometimes, as I said, we think we’re doing that but we’re not. And you can tell. Once you catch a glimpse of self-realization, you’ll never go back again. There’s no turning back. You’ve either got it or you haven’t. There are no steps to it. It’s like when you’re in the room of darkness and you find the light switch. The darkness just dissipates. There are no gradual steps. It doesn’t become lighter, and lighter and lighter. The light just goes on the darkness dissipates. When your mind is really empty, realization comes of its own accord. SL: When you say to look at the mind, what you’re looking at is a thought? (R: The thought, your mind is thoughts.) If you see the thoughts, then they disappear. R: As you observe the thoughts they disappear, but more come, more come, and even when you’re finished with them from this life, they’ll come to you from a previous life. It never stops. So you have to keep asking the question, “To whom do they come? To whom do they come?” And keep observing and following the I thought, and doing nothing, and one day it will all be gone, and you’ll be free. But you have to have patience and persistence. Remember, it took us so many years to be the way we are, screwy, crazy, insane. So now it’s going to take a little time, perhaps, to get over it. But don’t worry about it, because we’re all hell bound for heaven whether we like it or not. Everybody gets there, sooner or later. Our job is to be relaxed and calm, peaceful, to observe ourselves, not to react to conditions. Remember, every condition that comes upon you is karmic in nature. It’s no accident. When you react to a condition, all you’re doing is accruing more karma for yourself and it will never end. The secret is to just watch, to observe the situation, and not react. As an example, if you’re driving home tonight and you have an accident, and you hit somebody’s car because they passed a red light, and even if it’s their fault physically, in reality it’s nobody’s fault. If you react to it by becoming angry, belligerent, all you’re doing is accruing more karma and you’ll just have to go over that situation again, and again, and again, and confront situations similar like that until you give it up and stop reacting. Then you win the battle, and you do not have to have a situation like that again in your life. SL: You said you’ll never have that situation again in your life? R: Never, if you confront it and you do not react to it, then you’re finished with it. Whatever you do not react to is gone, it’s finished. It’s like when you have a friend, and your friend is talking to you. If you do not react to your friend, you do not answer or say anything, what happens? Your friend leaves you. True? It’s the same thing with a condition. If you do not react to a condition, the condition leaves you. It goes away. It never comes back. SL: Do you have to gradually eliminate the reactions to get to complete freedom? R: You simply observe yourself. You watch the way you react to conditions. You do nothing but watch. In the process of watching your mind will slow down. It will become weaker and weaker until it’s gone completely, then you’ll be free. SL: So you don’t have to ask the I-thought, you just have to watch the mind? R: You automatically ask it when you’re watching. As you are watching you will ask the question, “To whom does this come?” Then you will find out that it does not come to you at all. It comes to your ego. So again, you watch the ego, and you ask the question, “To whom does the ego come?” The answer will come, “To me.” Hold onto that me. Find the source of me. It has no source. There is just emptiness, quietness, and you become free. But for one who knows that he is not the body or the mind, there is no prarabdha-karma for that one. But for the onlooker, it appears to be so. For the ajnani there appears to be prarabdha-karma, not for the Jnani. In other words, the ajnani may see problems, and that’s the karma coming to its conclusion, but for the Jnani there are no problems. Do you follow? What do you think? Why do we worry so much? We’re always concerned about something, aren’t we? Why? The world was going on without you for many years before you came, millions of years. And it will go on after you leave. So while your so-called existence in your body, is here, why do you worry, why do you fear? What are you afraid of? Be peaceful, be still. Learn to love one another, have compassion, practice loving kindness, be your Self. Always remember your real nature is absolute intelligence, as ultimate oneness, divine harmony, bliss consciousness, sat-chit-ananda, parabrahman. That’s who you really are. Identify with that and be free. So what do you think of that? SH: The ego position is just consciousness temporarily playing at being that particular ego? (R: Not really.) Where else can it come from? R: Consciousness is self-contained, therefore the ego is not really part of consciousness. It is an optical illusion, it doesn’t exist. It appears to exist. (SH: Yeah.) And it didn’t come from anyplace. It comes from your imaginings, but consciousness never gave it birth. (SH: The identification of consciousness with the body-mind produces the ego?) It appears that way, but it’s not true. Consciousness does not really identify with anything because it is self-contained. Consciousness only knows consciousness. Everything else is an optical illusion that just doesn’t exist. Even if the appearance is strong, it does not exist. And you can always think about these examples. When you’re in the desert and you’re dying of thirst, you see a mirage that’s water, water, and you crawl to the water and what have you got? Sand. But the water appeared so real to you, didn’t it? In the same instance, all the things of this world appear real, but they’re like the optical illusion, they’re like the mirage, like the sky is blue, like the sand that appears as water. It’s false imagination, misidentification. Turn back, go within, dive deep within to your Self, identify with the Self and become free forever. I think what some of us do is we read too many books and we make it too technical, and we think we have to do things. We have to do this and we have to do that, and we give everything names, and we say consciousness is the light that shines in mind that becomes the ego. We don’t have to know about these things. All we have to know is, that I am not the body-mind phenomenon. I am absolute reality, that’s all you’ve got to know, and follow the absolute reality, become it, do whatever you have to do to become it. Practice observation, mindfulness, watch your thoughts, Vipassana meditation, self-inquiry. Whatever you have to do, do it, to quiet the mind, and then you will see something brand new. You will realize that you were never born, that you do not persist right now and you can never die. You are free. SF: Robert, there is no stuff out of consciousness? R: No. (SF: Nothing is out of consciousness?) Consciousness again is self-contained. (SF: Right, but nothing exists beyond consciousness?) Nothing exists beyond consciousness. We give it names like pure awareness. (SF: Thoughts are mind in that respect. How to…) How to stop them? (SF: No I mean, if nothing exists beyond consciousness, thoughts as well as mind have to be within consciousness, part of it?) Not really because thoughts and mind do not exist. If they existed as an entity, they would be part of consciousness. (SF: Illusion per se.) It’s illusion. (SF: Illusion, by definition, is non-existent?) Exactly. So they never really existed, therefore they cannot be part of consciousness. If they were part of consciousness, it would mean that they existed, and consciousness gave them birth and now we have to try to get rid of them. But, there’s nothing to get rid of because it didn’t exist. You’re fighting nothings. (SF: So illusion, by definition, would be something without consciousness?) It will be nothing, no thing. It never existed and never will exist. It’s part of your false imagination. Where did it come from? It came from nowhere because it just doesn’t exist. SU: Then the awareness of this mirage also doesn’t exist. R: That’s true, you’re right. Consciousness doesn’t exist either. It’s all a concept. The finite can never know the infinite. There are no words to describe it. You have to dive within yourself and experience it for oneself to realize it. There are no definitions. Everything we say is a preconceived idea, concept. Go beyond that, and you go beyond that by stopping your thoughts, stop thinking. That’s how you go beyond it, and you stop thinking through self-inquiry and through observation and through awareness, watching, becoming the witness. ST: Robert, isn’t it a possibility that a lot of us, or at least all of us, from the early times that we can remember as a kid, always had a part of us set aside that was watching, and from time to time we have a feeling that our lives are unreal, maybe from desire to co-create or whatever and we feel a prisoner because of all this, and yet we live our lives and have these definite strong feelings that that’s not all there is, the body is not all there is? I never got to the mind myself if that was a valid thing but… (R: Okay, so what’s the point?) The point is if a lot of us that feel that way, and still if we have a duality of living our lives, especially when we’re young we have strong desires, then as they fade we still are imprisoned by us perceiving a body. R: This is why you have to ask yourself, “Who is imprisoned? Who has these thoughts and feelings? To whom do they come?” Go beyond everything you just said. Go beyond it. Forget about what you just said and simply go beyond it. Ask yourself, “To whom do these thoughts come about imprisonment, about being young, about being old, about thoughts?” None of that exists. Go beyond everything by asking the question, “To whom do these thoughts come? To me? Who am I? What is the source of the I?” Follow the source and become free. Follow the source into the heart and do nothing but observe and watch and you will find there is no source, it never happened. You’ve always been free. You’ve always been bright and shining. Everything else is nonsense. (ST: You mean it’s just a memory?) Of course, it’s memory, it’s concepts, it’s preconceived ideas. It’s all those things, but don’t think about those things. Forget about how you got there, how they came. Realize who you are now. “I am not this body. I am not this mind. I am not these thoughts. I am not this condition or situation.” “Then who am I?” Then stop and ask again, “Then who am I?” And as you keep asking like this you will notice that the space between the “who am I’s” has become larger and larger, and in that space you will find your freedom. (silence) R: There’s nothing new under the sun. Do we have any announcements? SN: Some people were suggesting that we move the Thursday night meetings up a little bit for they don’t get out of work by 4 o’clock. So that’s kind of open for discussion. (General talk and discussion) SL: When you were traveling where were you staying? (R: Ramana ashram.) You were staying there? (R: Yeah, as a base.) What were you doing there? If you were free why were you staying there? (R: Just for the peace, just for nothing, no reason.) It was very nice being, it was beautiful. (R: Umm.) SG: How did you do on the test, Robert, the math test? R: Zero, I didn’t take the test. I didn’t take it. SB: That’s a good trade off, you fail a maths test and realize God instead. SG: Who’s Sri Ganeshwar? (R: He’s the editor of the mountain path magazine.) So are you still associated with that ashram? (R: I’m not associated with any ashram.) SN: He was there when Ramana was there. SK: Does everyone experience reality in the same way, with light? R: There is no particular way it happens. It’s different with everybody. The reality comes after all that stuff, after the light, after the experience. Reality is void, nothingness. SB: Robert all these people on the path for twenty, thirty, forty years, read all the books, you know. Most of them seekers, they’ve been to India a few times, they’ve had five, six gurus, they’ve done all the meditations, how come they don’t realize their self, you know? R: Because they’re still seekers. They have to stop being seekers and get down to business. (laughter) SK: But who are these people that you are describing that have not realized the Self. I have not met anyone who hasn’t realized something. (SB: Really?) (Two students respond with: “I’m one.”) (SB: Well everybody has had little experiences but something that has lasted and not just little inner experiences.) SX: (Student explains an experience he had but finds that he has a problem with believing that the physical universe is illusory as Robert explains) R: That’s good. Okay, let’s imagine you’re having a dream. And we’re talking just like this in your dream and you point to the chair, you’re sitting in the chair and you say, “I can’t imagine that this is illusory.” And you’re telling me the same thing that you’re telling me right now, and then you wake up. Do you understand what I’m saying? It’s the same thing. (SX: The same student gives his understanding of what he feels a dream is.) Okay, so what’s the question? (SX: The question is I can’t see how this duality can be resolved. There seems to be duality everywhere. Here we are. We’re sitting in a room and it’s apparently very solid. It is to me.) It cannot be resolved until you understand that you are not the body or the mind. (SX: That I’m not what?) The body or the mind? (SX: I’m aware of that, totally aware of that.) If you were totally aware there wouldn’t be any problem. Then you wouldn’t ask the question. (SX: Well, it’s not a problem. It’s not something that troubles me. It’s just…) See, just by asking the question it shows that you’re not aware of it. If you were aware of what you’re saying there would be no question, do you see? (SX: Okay, that’s your reality, not mine.) (Robert laughs) In other words, the dream and the waking state are both projections of your mind. We can be talking right now and you can have an awakening and wake up, and all this would be all gone. You’d see a completely different universe. When you actually dream, your mind projects the dream and you have all kinds of experiences, they’re both the same, there’s no difference, except this is a little longer, that’s all. SK: When you dream you think it’s real, in the dream? (R: Of course.) SX: So the existence of something doesn’t really depend on my recognition of it. (R: Of course it does.) The existence of something for me depends on my recognition of it, but the existence of it, itself, through right inference, doesn’t appear to me to be dependent upon whether I recognize it, see it, or am aware of it at all. And as a matter of fact the gentleman just said a while ago, don’t worry about the world, the world has been around for a long time. Long before you got here. Now that denotes to me that even in his reality that it has an existence. Has some kind of an existence. R: The only existence it has is the words that are spoken to try to explain it. (SX: Uh-huh.) That’s as far as the existence goes. We could be having a dream and discussing the same subject and talking about Troy and talking about what you just said before. It can all be in your dream, same thing. There’s no difference. (SX: Okay.) The thing to do is to forget about that, and ask yourself, “Who’s dreaming?” (SX: Who what?) Ask yourself, “Who is dreaming? Who’s having this dream?” Inquire within and find out. Find out what’s a dream and what’s not. Ask yourself. The answers are within you. I cannot give you the answer, it’s within yourself. I don’t want you to believe anything I say. (SX: Well, I’m obviously not doing that. I’m not disbelieving it.) Good, find out for yourself. (SX: But, I have to give some credence to the way I think, whether the thinking is an illusion or not, you know.) Who does? Who has to do all this? (SX: Well, I don’t have to do all of it, but it’s a… you know.) Ask yourself, “Who has to do this?” and you’ll find that there’s nobody to do anything. (SX: Okay, then I’ll try that, I’ll work on it.) Really? SG: Actually, when you ask yourself that question, “Who’s unhappy or anything?” it disappears. (R: It does, you’re right, exactly.) So when it disappears, what’s that? (R: What’s that?) There’s nothing. (R: Only the Self remains.) Well that’s it then. (R: The Self is emptiness, the void.) That’s right, it’s true. (laughs)) (R: And it’s total joy and peace, but you have to discover it by yourself.) (pause) Now, what I usually do at the end of a meeting is that we have a meditation to help you, and as you practice this meditation it will actually help. So make yourself comfortable. Take ten deep breaths from your diaphragm in order to relax. Breathe deeply, slowly and gently. With every exhalation feel your body relaxing deeper and deeper. Now begin to breathe normally. Do not emphasize your breathing. Become the witness of your breathing. Observe your breath. Do not emphasize your breath. Watch your breath, and observe your bodily sensations. Observe the sensations of your body. If your mind wanders, simply bring it back again. You are observing your thoughts, your mind, your sensations. Simply watch your thoughts. Do not try to change them, just watch. Whatever your mind is telling you, do not react to it. Just watch your thoughts and watch your bodily sensations. Now ask yourself the question, “Who is the observer? Who is watching? Who is observing?” And the answer comes, “I am. I am observing. I am.” This is the meditation. With your breathing when you inhale you say, “I,” and when you exhale you say, “am.” “I am,” with your breath. Do not try to analyze anything. You simply inhale and say, “I,” and you exhale and say, “am.” “I am.” (pause) Feel how peaceful you are becoming just by doing that. (Silence) Om, shanti, shanti, shanti. (tape ends)