Transcript:
Robert: I welcome you with all my heart, with all my being and with all my soul. I love each and every one of you. This is satsang. We have two types of people that come here. One is bhakta’s devotional people and one is Jnanas, Jnanis, aspiring Jnanis, knowledge. And if we both respect each others feelings, we’ll get along fine. They both lead to the same goal. They both lead to self-realization. There’s no difference. The difference is in the eyes of the beholder. What is satsang? Satsang is a very powerful tool. Sat means being. Sang means at the feet, of being. Your real nature is being, Self. Self is omnipresence. So you’re sitting at the feet of the Self, which is none other than your Self. This is not a metaphysical meeting. It is not a lecture. It is not a philosophy. It is a presence itself. And if you come to it often enough, that’s all you have to do. The words that I speak do not mean too much. It is the silence that is eloquent. And the silence is the same with all of us. Silence is the Self. If you rest in silence you become the Self. Some people still come here, who believe they’re going to some kind of a meeting, a get together. So Sunday they come to this, because they have nothing better to do. Monday they go hear Swami Misugananda Yogi. (laughter) Tuesday they go see Swami Nunu, Thursday they go see Professor so and so and they come for entertainment. How many years have you been doing that and to what avail? My suggestion is that you pick something that appeals to you and really get into it for at least six months and see what happens. But if you read too many books, go to various teachings, go to different meetings, you’ll become totally confused and before you know it, thirty years will pass, fifty years will pass and you’re no better off than you were before. Now I’ll give you an example: I got a call today from a fellow in Santa Cruz. Well, I’ll tell you his name, Jim Vanderbelt. And he was a heavy pot user. (laughter) Now it’s interesting what he told me, he said, since he’s come here about four or five times, he woke up this morning and he tried to smoke pot like he always does and he couldn’t stand it. (laughter) He couldn’t stand it. He had to throw it away. He doesn’t know why. And he feels an inner happiness that he never felt before. I’m relating this to you to show you that just from being in satsang, everything becomes resolved in your life, everything. Your reaction to things begin to mellow out. You start minding your own business as it were. You become calm, peaceful, relaxed. But you have to intensify your desire for Satsang. You have to love it and treat it as an entity, as a thing itself, as a teaching. Just being here, will do all that for you. Chanting is a very important process. It makes the mind one-pointed. When the mind becomes one-pointed, you can focus on the Self. And by focussing on the Self, the mind becomes annihilated, and you become free. Do not take the things we do here for granted. Everything is important, everything. If you get involved in it, you will see the results in a short time. But if you just come here for amusement because you have nothing better to do, as I said before, 50 years will pass and you’ll still be running to teachers, running to India, going to different states looking for certain ways or methods of finding yourself. But in truth, there is no way and there’s no method. The Self is the Self, just like the sun always shines. You just have to remove the clouds and the sun will shine once again like it always did. And so it is, that all you’ve got to do is remove the ignorance, the world and all its ramifications from your mind and you will be free. Everyone is looking for happiness, peace and love and freedom from all their problems. Who doesn’t want this? This is what everybody really wants, happiness, peace, love and freedom from their problems. But they make one mistake and that is they’re looking to solve something. As long as you’re looking to solve something or to attain anything you will never do it. For it involves the ego and the mind. It is the ego-mind that needs, that wants, that wants to become, that wants to acquire. If you understand a little bit of your real nature, that you are Spirit, that you are absolute intelligence, infinite wisdom. If you dwell in that, that alone will become your reality. And everything else undesirable will vanish. I’m not saying that the world will change. You will just acquire a different perception of this world in which you live. Everything will become quite neutral and you will stop fighting, you will stop trying to make things happen. Yet the average person may say, “If I did not make things happen, I will get nowhere. Nothing will happen.” On the contrary, it has been known by spiritual Masters throughout the ages, when you become quiet, when you stop thinking too much, when you become quiescent, thoughtless, you will be lead and guided to what you have to do and everything will work out for you. Your body came to this earth for a specific reason. It will follow through, no matter what you think. In other words, if you’re supposed to work, you will find work no matter what happens. Even if thousands of people do not find work, you will find work. If you’re not supposed to work, no matter how hard you try you will not be able to work, you will not find work. Even though there are millions of jobs available. This is all karmic, you have nothing to do with it. Your job and your mission is simply not to react to anything. I know it sounds strange especially those of you who are involved in work. You still think and feel, if I do not research my work, if I do not plan, if I do not think about it, it will not get done. On the contrary, something will lead you and guide you. A mysterious power will take care of everything for you. This only happens when you understand, I am not the doer. As long as you believe you are the doer, you have to struggle, you have to fight, you have to compete and you have to straighten things out. But as soon as you realize, I am not the doer. I didn’t ask to be born, I didn’t have to go through this position, to have the parents I had, to grow up where I grew up, this is all karmic. The same power that took care of this will take care of you now. Will put you in you right place. Will take care of your finances, your health and everything else. Your job is to focus your attention on the Self. What is the Self? The Self is your real nature, that’s what you are. The Self is consciousness. What is consciousness? Consciousness is the power that is conscious of itself. It is self-contained, it is omnipresent. When you speak of love, of peace, of God, of joy, of happiness, of bliss, you’re speaking of consciousness. These words are just other words for consciousness. Consciousness is you. The Self, consciousness, they’re all synonymous. They all pertain to you. Now what have you been seeing? What have you been reacting to? The mind goes out and causes problems and you try to resolve them. You cannot. For when you resolve one problem another one pops up somewhere else and there’s no end to it. It’s like trying to figure out, what came first the seed or the tree? You never get anywhere, there’s no solution. People have been trying to resolve problems, since the beginning of time and the world is getting worse. There’s no adequate solution in trying to resolve anything in the outside. The great secret of course is to; Leave the world alone, go within your Self and there you will find happiness, joy and peace. But how do you go within yourself? How do you dive deep within yourself?By asking the question, “Who am I?” I have found this to be the fastest method there is, to awakening. There are other methods, but personally I found this the fastest. All you have to do is question, “Who am I?” You do not have to answer, you do not have to analyze anything, you do not have to come up with any solution. You simply ask the question, “From whence did I come? Where did the I come from? What is the source of I?” Many people have been practicing Jnana Marga have made the mistake of concentrating on the I and this is why you do not get anywhere. You concentrate on the source, not on the I. The I is only an illusion. It is only is something that appears to be like your body. It has no momentum, it has no substance. But yet you have to watch the I. You have to abide in the I. For it leads you to the source of existence. The source of everything. You do this by again questioning, “Where does the I come from?” You do not answer. And you ask again, “Who am I?” You never answer. If you answer, it is your mind playing games with you. Your ego is very powerful, it does not wish to be destroyed. It will play games with you. You simply pose the question yet you never answer. The answer will come in due time. It will reveal itself to you as you. You need patience, take your time. Do not think it is going to happen overnight. It may, it may not. Yet do not think of those things. If you’re really busy working on your I, you will not have time to find fault in the world. For the I will take all of your attention. What do you give your attention to now? What hurts you? What bothers you? This continues simply because you are placing all of your attention, all of your focus on the thing that you think is wrong with your life or something that’s disturbing you. Let me remind you, you will never resolve anything that way. It may appear that you resolve it that way, but something else will pop up. As an example: A lady is having problems with her co-workers. She can’t get along with them. She says, “They’re doing this to me, they’re doing that to me, it’s not my fault,” so she quits her job and she moves to San Francisco. Gets a new job. Everything is okay for the first couple of months. But then she finds the same problem with her new co-workers. Because she has taken herself with her. Yet she does not realize this. She thinks it’s the people. She thinks it’s the environment. She thinks it’s the economy. But she never goes to search herself, to ask herself, “Why do I have this problem? Why do I perceive these things? Who is the perceiver? I am. Who am I? Who is the I that perceives these problems? Where did that I come from? What is its source?” You abide in the I, yet you do not concentrate on the I. You abide in the I, you follow the I to the source. One day you will awaken and you will become free. But again, do not look for a timetable. Do not try to make it happen this year, or tomorrow or yesterday. It may, leave it alone. Do the work that is necessary and everything will work out. Time passes very fast. Before you know it, it’s time to leave your body. What have you accomplished? Have you become free? If not, you have to go through the illusion of reincarnation and karma, again and again and again, so-it-appears. Until you learn to let go, until you learn not to react to anything. Not to find fault. Not to try to make the world spin your way but to surrender completely to your Self. Surrendering is very important. To whom do you surrender? To the source, the Self. You may say something like this: “Okay Self, take my problems. Take my negativity, take everything, Thy will be done. I no longer have any concern about these things.” And you stop reacting towards person, place or thing. You mellow out. You become calm, in the face of all adversity. It makes no difference what is facing you. You become happy, peaceful and calm. This again cannot happen by itself. It needs your help. You cannot say, “I’m going to do this,” and it will happen. Just like Jim, we never said he was stop smoking pot. But all of a sudden he has no liking for it again. It happened by itself. The same thing will happen in your affairs. If you do the work and work on self-inquiry, surrender, “To whom does this come? Who feels upset? Who feels depressed? Who feels that others are taking advantage of me? Where do these thoughts come from? They come from me. From my past, from previous lives. I think these thoughts. Everything is my fault. Everything comes out of me. So who is me? Where did me come from? How did it get born? Does it really exist?” And you go deeper and deeper, inquiring where the me came from. Who gave it birth? As you follow the me, one day something will happen. There may seem to be an explosion of light and everything will be burnt out. All your karma. All the samskaras. Everything that has ever disturbed you will be gone and you will be free. And you will realize that all is well and everything is unfolding as it should. And there are no problems. All is well and everything is unfolding as it should. There was once a Prime Minister of a large Kingdom. And he went to his Guru who simply used to say, “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” And the Prime Minister used to wonder why he says this. And the Guru would say, “Just come here and listen to those words and repeat them to yourself.” He did this often enough, enlightenment came. And he did realize, all is well and everything is happening as it should. So he went back to the kingdom and sat in his chair and gave advice to the people as he usually did. Now the head of the security force had a problem. That day he was due to get promoted to chief and he was bypassed and somebody else got promoted, so he was disturbed. He went to see the Prime Minister and told him his troubles. And the Prime Minister smiled at him and said, “Don’t worry, all is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” And the guard got mad, he went away mumbling, “How can he tell me something like this, this is ridiculous.” Now the head chef had a problem because his wife ran away with one of the cooks. And he was very disturbed. He came to the Prime Minister and said, “Mr Prime Minister what should I do? My wife ran away. I feel very bad.” The Prime Minister said, “Don’t worry, all is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” And the chef got very upset and he left. He was walking down the hall and he bumped into the guard and they related their stories. And they said, “Lets fix this guy. He can’t tell us things like this, we have serious problems.” And they were thinking of a way to get even. They were walking down the corridor and they saw the royal barber shop. And there was the king getting his royal shave. The barber inadvertently slipped and cut the kings throat and it was deep gash. Royal blood was spilling all over the floor. (laughter) And they both looked and they said, “I know what we’ll do,” they conceived a plan. When the king was feeling better with a bandage around his neck. They went and said, “Your majesty, we went and told the Prime Minister that you cut your royal neck and you know what he said? He said, All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” So the king said, “What! Bring him to me.” So they brought the prime minister and the king said, “Look at my neck, I’m in total pain. Do you see the cut and the bandage? What do you think of that?” And the prime minister looked and he said, “Don’t worry your majesty, all is well and everything is unfolding as it should,” and the king said, “What! How dare you tell me something like this when I’m in pain, throw him in the dungeon!” So they threw the prime minister in the dungeon. Now, it was Wednesday afternoon. And every Wednesday afternoon the king went hunting in the jungle with the prime minister. But since the prime minister was in the dungeon he went hunting by himself. Now in the jungle there lived a tribe of Kali worshippers. And these Kali worshippers always sacrificed somebody to Kali. And this was the day of the sacrifice. So the chief of the Kali worshippers told the worshippers, “Go out and find me somebody virtuous so we can sacrifice this person to Kali.” They got on their horses and rode out. And sure enough they found the king. And they didn’t care whether he was a king or what he was. They grabbed him and took him to the chief. And the chief said, “Good you found somebody, undress him and bath him and let’s sacrifice him.” They proceeded to undress him and they saw the cut on his neck. And they showed the chief and the chief said, “What! This guys no good, he’s not pure. Throw him back where he came from.” And they took him back and let him go. On the way back to the kingdom the king started to think and he said, “Now wait a minute, if didn’t get this cut I would be dead meat. The prime minister was right,” and he rode back to the kingdom, to the palace and he said, “Release the prime minister.” Which he did and he related the story to the prime minister and he said,”you were right all the time.” So the prime minister said, “Not only that your majesty, but if I rode with you today and you didn’t throw me into the dungeon, they would have caught me also and I didn’t have a cut and they would have sacrificed me to Kali. So by being in the dungeon my life was spared.” This story shows you that when something happens to you and you try to solve it by blaming others or believing there’s something wrong you are making a dreadful mistake. For if you are able to see the whole picture, whatever happens to you is for your ultimate good. Never curse the darkness if you don’t understand what’s going on. This is why when things are troubling you and you have no idea, why, and you think you have got bad luck, or people are against you, or life is very hard. If you would merely go within yourself, dive deep within yourself and ask yourself, “To whom does this come?” or “who am I?” and follow the I to the source, everything will be revealed to you. EVERYTHING will be revealed to you. And you will find unalloyed happiness, total joy and total peace. But you have to do the work. You cannot just ride through life and take things as they come. Simply begin the work of self-inquiry and everything else will take care of itself. And remember do not ask about time, when it’s going to happen. It will take care of itself. Remember that joke about the Zen Buddhist monk that I told you. He wanted to become a monk. So he flew to Japan and he had an interview with the head Roshi. And the Roshi gave him instructions and accepted him and he said, “By the way, there is one thing I forgot to tell you. We have a vow of silence here. You can only speak three words every ten years.” So he said, “Okay” and he went to his quarters. Ten years passed. And he had an interview with the Roshi. And the Roshi said, “Do you have anything to say?” And he said, “The food sucks!” And he went back to his quarters. Ten more years passed. He had an interview with the Roshi. The Roshi said, “Do you have anything to say?” And he said, “The beds hard!” And he went back to his quarters. Ten more years passed. He had an interview with the Roshi and the Roshi said, “Have you got anything to say?” He said, “Yes I quit!” And the Roshi said, “I can’t blame you, you’ve been bitching ever since you got here. (students laugh) That’s how it is with us. We keep bitching and bitching about everything in our lives and we want to be enlightened next weekend. (laughter) What I say to you is forget about enlightenment. Forget about self-realization. Merely practice self-inquiry and come to satsang. Everything will take care of itself. Satsang is really when we sit in silence and then have question and answers. But most of you still like me to give a little talk. So I do that to please you. So we’ll now open up for questions. Feel free to ask about anything you like about spiritual life or about your life if you like. And we’ll see where we go. This is what this is all about. Everyone is coming from a different place. And you may have something you want answered, that I haven’t spoken about. Feel free to ask at this time. SG: Robert, what’s the difference between abiding in the I or following it and concentrating on it. R: Abiding in the I, following the I is merely observing the I, watching the I, seeing the I. Concentrating is where you put all of your energy into it and become one with it. You do that with the source. For instance, when you follow the I, one day you will feel something at the source of the I. And you will watch and observe how the I becomes abolished in its source. And you will become the source. Your feelings, your emotions, will be swallowed up by the source and you will know it. You will feel a peace that you never felt before. You will feel a joy that is overwhelming. You will find unalloyed happiness in the source. But you abide in the I and you follow the I by witnessing, by watching, by observing. The I will eventually turn into the source where you will become free. SE: When Muktananda was in town, 1980. I remember him one time, a monk was giving a talk, one of the Swamis. And there was this woman in the audience that said, “I’ve been practicing Siddhi yoga for some time now and everyday I feel depressed and each day I feel more and more depressed. I can barely wake up in the morning. I can’t stay awake during the day. I feel miserable. My body hurts. My head hurts. And I can barely survive from day to day and it’s getting worse. I think of suicide. And she says I’ve been practicing and practicing for eight years.” (break in tape as Robert continues) R: …true, that everything is no thing but all the same. You have to do something with your mind to get rid of your mind. So those people who seem to attain this effortlessly. There was a time when they did practice in a previous existence. Then again let me explain. Words are hard to explain. When you have the experience, “Who am I? What is the source of the I?” It it’s part of the vast experience that comes instantaneously. And as I said before, when it happens it appears as if I practiced for years and years and years. But yet I never practiced in this life. So that experience made me realize that I had practiced before. Somewhere, somehow I had done it all before. But it happened now. So, sometimes you may think you’re not getting anywhere. But how much time have you given it, eight years, ten years, twenty years? Even the last time. Remember what you call a lifetime is but a split second in eternity. Your so-called life is here today and gone tomorrow. It doesn’t mean anything in universal time. So keep on practicing. No matter how long it takes. Don’t look at time. Just do the work. But remember not to use effort. Not to try to do anything. But simply observe. You pose the question, “Who am I?” and you watch. You observe. You look. You see. Then you say, “Who am I?” again, you say it again and again and again. All the time you’re observing, you’re looking, you’re watching. You are not looking for any results. You are not trying to practice anything. You are not trying to put any energy in motion. You are not trying to raise the kundalini or work with the chakras. You are simply observing, you’re watching and you’re waiting patiently. If you can do this I can assure you that results will come. Does that make any sense? It’s effortless. There is no trying, there is no effort involved. Just look, just watch, just observe. That’s all you’ve got to do. But again forget about time. It makes no difference how many years you have been practicing. You’re still better off than a person who never practiced. And the day will come when you get it. And everything will unfold as it should, which is right now! SM: Robert, you said something about a blast of light or something like that isn’t that consciousness? (R: Yes.) Does sound go with that? R: It happens differently to different people. There is usually no sound and the flash of light is not the ultimate experience. The ultimate experience is beyond light, beyond sound. But it begins like that. There’s a flash of light. Everything happens at one time. And then the light subsides and there is nothing. There is a void. And the void becomes everything. It becomes the Self. And then you are just aware, you know. And you know that you know. And all is well. Some people realize the Self with a flash of light, as the initial experience. And some people just went into the void and became ultimate reality. It happens slightly differently to different people. SE: From the viewpoint of the absolute we can say just as easily and either, that practice leads to enlightenment or enlightenment causes the practice to precede it? R: Well enlightenment doesn’t cause any practice. For enlightenment is just enlightenment why do you need practice? Once enlightenment comes there’s nothing to do, just be. So that’s the way it goes. Enlightenment does not lead to a practice. Because what you are saying is this: When you become God, does God have to practice as God? God is God and that’s omnipresence. Therefore when you find the solution and you awaken you become omnipresent and there is nothing to do, until then practice. SN: But when you say practice you mean effortless effort? (R: Effortless effort.) Because I don’t know what siddha yoga is, but I’ve been involved in other types of meditation and it seems as though the central idea is, in other forms of meditation is the idea of duality and I feel that there is something to attain. In Advaita, non duality there is nothing new to attain you are already that. Getting rid of the idea that you are not that you’re already that. And so there was an analogy in Ramana’s books how he said the other practices are like trying to lead an ox with a whip. We are trying to concentrate, trying to accomplish something, trying to be something, yet we are already that. And in Advaita we are trying to lead an ox with grass. The one trying to force it, the other it follows of itself. This idea of practice when there are practices in duality or whether it’s non-duality. In duality you need to gain something but in non-duality you are already that? R: What you are saying is very true. Remember all of your past practices has brought you here. So they were all necessary. You can never say, “What I did before was not necessary.” You wouldn’t be here if weren’t so, everything is necessary. That’s what I mean when I say, “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” Everything is in it’s right place. You never made a mistake. Everything you did has been necessary. Regret nothing. Look for nothing. Find peace within yourself. Abide in the Self and leave the world alone. Everything will come in due time. Do not look for a time, again. It makes no difference how long you’ve practiced. I’ll reiterate, you can practice ten years, one year, one week, twenty years, twenty lifetimes, it makes no difference. Don’t even think of that. Simply thinking of time does not allow you to go forward. Time keeps you back. Forget about time. Do what is necessary. Everything will take care of itself. SV: Robert, just a comment on what this other fellow said before. Even I can tell if you are doing self-inquiry and you find yourself becoming more and more depressed and not happy I would say that would be a sign of you doing it wrong. (laughter) (R: So what’s the point?) Well I asked you to comment on that. R: Oh just to comment, okay. Look at it this way. It may be wrong but at least they’re doing something and everything has been ordained. So you were meant to do the practice wrong for a time. (laughter) Therefore you shouldn’t fight it. You shouldn’t say to yourself, “All of these years have been wasted. I’ve gone astray. My teacher was a false teacher. He gave me the wrong practice. And I took twenty-five years of time when I could have been doing the right things.” On the contrary, everything is right. No matter how it looks. And if you didn’t do the practice wrong, you wouldn’t be here. So that’s a blessing in disguise. It’s actually a blessing in disguise. That you are able to do the practice wrong so you can come here. (students laugh) There is always a reason for everything. And there are no mistakes. If you think you made a mistake, what you’re saying indirectly is, “God doesn’t know what he is doing.” Because if God is all there is, how can there be a mistake? We just perceive it wrongly. But everything we’ve been through has been very necessary for our own unfoldment. Be thankful. That’s another quality you should develop. Be grateful and be thankful for every experience that you go through. This will push you forward. Regret nothing. SK: Through conflict there is resolution. (R: Sure.) As far as people are talking about time and effortlessness there are some paths that use time. They concentrate on doing so much practice within each and everyday with effort. (R: That’s the path of karma yoga.) Well whatever yoga it is but they do practices, spiritual practices, meditation or whatever and the attainment as far as I can see from my experience and from observing others, etc, is just as great because they are concentrating so hard that they are merging their mind. They are dissolving their mind through the intensity of the time they put in to their practice, their quality practice. I don’t know why people are cursing putting effort in unless of course the ego is the doer. That’s the only drawback I can see. SG: It’s all attitude. SK: Yeah, if you realize that you don’t have to, you can disengage it in some way. R: If the attainment has been obtained then why do need anything else. (SK: Excuse me?) If you have attained what you want then that’s all you need, that’s good. I will never put down another path. All paths lead to the same goal. The only thing that happens with the path you’re talking about is it takes longer. When you use effort it takes a longer time to achieve nothingness. Because the ultimate result of all your effort is nothing. We are trying to achieve nothingness. (SK: Robert if it sits with the dynamic that’s pretty good.) If it works for you, use it. SR: Isn’t it sort of a question of whether you want to see yourself as a practicer or one who is realized in a sense then too. It is like if you want to really be doing a practice that’s always there or if you want to make up that’s there too. R: Again, the ordainer, remember Ishvara? (students laugh) The ordainer has ordained what you should do in this life. And you’re going to do whatever you have to do whether you like it or not. (laughter) But, you have the freedom of not reacting and of going within and finding yourself. So if you’re involved in a practice that you think you have to do and nothing is going to stop you, by all means continue the practice. Until the time comes when you automatically give it up, if you have to give it up. But everything will take care of itself and you have nothing to say about it. See, we talk as if we have something to say. We talk as if we are in control. We talk as if we are going to use this practice and follow this teacher and go to this country. We have nothing to do with that. We are not the doer. Something will motivate you to practice whatever you have to practice or not to practice, whatever the case maybe. Your job is just to watch, to observe, to look and not to react. If you can do that you’ll be safe. SF: With, not to react Robert, you mean surrendering, right? R: When you surrender you do not react, that’s right. (SF: Who is the real doer, Ishvara? Really, actually?) The real doer is the Self. Ishvara is just an intermediary. (laughter) (SF: I don’t think the Self is the one who is doing things?) The Self does nothing because there is nothing to do. (SF: Then Ishvara is the doer?) Ishvara helps. He’s the helper. He makes all your karma come true. (SF: Right.) Because you believe in them. SH: He takes the wrap as the doer because the Self does nothing? (laughter) R: That’s right, exactly. So as long you’re involved in practices, in doership, realize who the doer really is, Ishvara. (laughter) SR: Robert, I’m looking forward to enlightenment, after that, then what do we do? R: What is there to do? Your body remember is going to do whatever it came here to do, but it has nothing to do with you. You will not be passive, if that’s what you mean? If you were meant to be passive, nothing can make you non-passive. Do not concern yourself about this. Become self-realized then you’ll see. Yes most people think still, if they become self-realized the only thing they will be good for is go to a cave and meditate. On the contrary, you can be a garbage-man or woman. You can be the president of a bank. You can be the president of the United States. You will be anything you like. It will not change things as far as your body is concerned. The only difference is in your perception. You will perceive things differently. Life will no longer have the power to disturb you in any way. It’s like you’re Master of the universe. The universe can no longer scare you. Can no longer frighten you no matter what happens. And you will have a feeling of immortality. You will feel and know that you were never born, that you do not exist and that you do not disappear. You will just know this and act accordingly. SR: Robert, when we reach that state it seems like it really cut’s the career choices. SK: You can start a new kind of employment agency. R: A Jnani employment agency. SE: It happens at the age of sixty-two or sixty-five. Realized being employment agency. SK: We just watch. (students laugh again) R: See remember who is asking the question? The Jnani or the ajnani? So from your viewpoint it appears as there is nothing to do. But you will do plenty, don’t worry about that. Everything will take care of itself. SK: Robert, when you ask like what should I do or what’s my purpose it’s still because you identify as being a body or mind. That question normally depends what you thought you were. (R:Yes.) If you saw you were beyond that or not that… that could not be possible. R: There would be no question. That’s true. But yet your body will still do something. If you were meant to get married you will get married. If you are meant to get divorced you will get divorced. If you are meant to travel to Italy you will go to Italy. But your body will still be active. Your mind will be inactive. It will be still, quiet, quiescent. And you’ll live spontaneously. All will go well with you, because the world will no longer have the power to scare you or to frighten you in any way. SG: Robert, when we’re through with this world I assume that we don’t reincarnate any more then we are just out there as a friend of Ishvara and…? R: No. When you reach the state of enlightenment. There is no Ishvara. There is no world and there is no out there. You just see yourself as consciousness, bliss. (SR: But manifesting as anything?) No. (SG: It looks sort of a void?) No. Bliss, sat-chit-ananda, absolute reality and that cannot be comprehended by the finite mind. You have to experience that state. There are no words to describe it. (SG: That means that there are no vibratory colors, sounds or do they exist in a different…?) Why do you need color and sound. Who needs the color and sound? (SG: I’ve just grown used to them.) So what you want is enlightenment according to your rules and regulations. (SG: No not really, I guess there is a light-hearted way of trying to imagine what a world without anything in operation.) You can’t. You can’t imagine it. That’s virtually impossible to imagine. There is bliss, there is harmony, there is love, there is compassion and those things just happen. You have no idea that they are happening to you or from you. You become the embodiment of love, of joy, of bliss. SK: Then can’t these qualities that we’re talking about even unimaginable by the mind as to what they really are? R: Exactly. The mind cannot comprehend the infinite. The mind is only a bunch of thoughts, a conglomeration of thoughts of the past and the future. But the mind is only for your body. It is because you have a body that you have a mind. And because you have a mind you have a body. They both go together and they are both false. SR: Robert, these questions about what it’s like later, kind of bring up a sort of a Buddhist feeling that I have into reading people like Wang Fo and Lee Hi and that in a sense what we are really trying to do is put away that ‘what if,’ and ‘what will happen later’ and live in the present moment. It seems like our problems are always geared toward, if I have a purpose it’s in the future if I’m going to meet somebody? You know the mind is geared toward what if… (R: Yes of course.) …and it seems like with this awakening, that process will come to an end and we finally for the first time what we really see right now. It seems like our problems in a sense are always, we are not seeing what’s in front of us, we are always jumping ahead with our greed and our feelings. The Buddhist say get rid of greed, anger and delusion. It’s like we don’t ever see what we are really seeing because we are not ever in the present we are always jumping into what does this mean to me and what will happen later and when will I be fulfilled. (R: Or in the past.) Yeah. R: We worry about the past and worry about the future. That’s why we have to annihilate the mind. Get rid of it completely. (SR: We’ve really never seen the world in a certain sense because we are always doing that with our minds, going from the past to the future.) The mind is only given to us for our physical existence. If you go beyond your physical existence who needs a mind? You become mind-less and you stay happy. (tape break) Remember to love your Self to worship your Self, to bow to your Self, to pray to your Self because God dwells in you as you. Peace… (tape ends)