Transcript:
Robert: Good afternoon. It’s good being with you again. I welcome you with all my heart. There’s some of you who come hear to hear me speak. This is not exactly right. The message is between the words. The words themselves are fine but the real message is in between, in the silence, in the quietness. That’s where reality is. The less you talk the more you achieve. Learn to be quiet. Learn to find time at home where you do not speak. The world will still go on without you. You don’t have to worry. The power that runs this world does not need your advice. When you become still, quiet, you make a connection with a great power, and then things happen. I would like to acknowledge you, not by name, but just to acknowledge you. There are those of us who believe that in the transcendental state you do not care about anyone or anything. This is not true. I am aware of each one of you. I am more aware of you than you’ll ever know. I may not talk to some of you or say anything, but I know all about you. How do I see you? It is true that I see everything as consciousness. Imagine consciousness as a gigantic screen and you are images on the screen. So I am aware that I am the screen and you are the images of myself. There is only one Self and I am that. Therefore I am aware of both, that your appearance exists on the screen, yet you are the screen, or you are consciousness, but you are still seeing yourself as an image, as a body, whereas I see you as consciousness and also as the appearance that you see, as a body. But I know the truth. Therefore I am aware of you. There are some of you who come to see me from far away. We have people here who come from San Jose, Santa Cruz, San Diego and other far places. I’m aware of that. Thursday it was a rainy day, yet we had quite a few people here. That’s why I explained, first things first. If you’re really interested in your spiritual life, if you really wish to transcend the body, you’ve got to make this first in your life. You cannot compare satsang to watching the TV, or going to a movie, or going bowling or anything else. If you put satsang in the same category, then there is a total confusion within you, and you don’t even know what you want. But where you put your energy, where you put your life force, what you go after with all your heart, with all your soul, this is what you ultimately become. I appreciate you. I appreciate those of you who support me financially, who put funds in the collection box. Most of you realize this is my only source of income at this time. I appreciate that. Always remember whatever you give of yourself, you’re giving to yourself, because there’s only one Self. When you give away your love, you give your joy, you give your truth, you give your happiness, you give your finances, you give whatever you give, it’s like your right hand giving to the left hand. If you took away all space and all time there would only be one person. The reason we appear as many, is because of time and space, maya, the illusion. It appears as if there is time and space. Therefore there are many. But as you go within yourself, as you begin to identify with pure consciousness, time and space seem to disappear, and wherever you look, you see yourself, for there’s no room for anyone else. There is only one Self. This is why you should never be angry at anyone, never judge anyone, never become upset with anyone or react to any one, for you are really doing it to yourself. Whatever is going to happen will happen. Your job is not to react. Your job is to understand that everything is predestined. You are in your right place where you are supposed to be. If there is anything that appears in your life that you don’t like, it’s wrong to try to change it. It’s right to go within yourself and see the truth within yourself. And then the appropriate changes will come by itself. Change no one. Change nothing. React to no one, react to nothing. Do not live in the past and do not worry about the future. Stay in the eternal now, where all is well. So I acknowledge you. After all you are me and I am you. There’s no difference. I love you all, for I love the Self. Love and the Self are synonymous. And since the Self is omnipresent, how can I not love you. Love is consciousness, absolute reality. We are all that. Why do you see others? Why do you see perverse situations? Why do you see all these dastardly things that seem to be apparent. Your eyes are meant for you to see, but to see the truth, whereas with most people the eyes see an object and sends the message to the brain, according to your programming, and you react accordingly. When you begin to realize it’s all a game, no one is born, no one dies, and in between no one prevails. There is only God, pure awareness. There are many methods to use to recognize this truth. This is why I share these with you. Not everyone can practice atma-vichara, self-inquiry. Therefore I share these other methods with you. There are many things that you should do. How many more years do you think you’ve got in your body? Why go after the fleeting things that change and disappear. Forget about trying to win the lottery. Forget about who’s hurt you. Forget about your sins of omission and commission. Let go of everything. Be yourself. Do not react to the world. Do not even react to your own body. Do not even react to your own thoughts. Learn to become the witness. Learn to be quiet. I know sometimes you get up in the morning and you feel out of sorts. You may feel depression, you may feel the collective unconscious of the world, which is a negative vibration. You should immediately snap out of this by realizing this is not the truth about me. The truth about me is I am love, I am consciousness, I am absolute reality. Identify with the truth about yourself. Do not allow your mind to tell you one iota of negative thinking. Catch yourself. It makes no difference what position you’re in. Do not believe and think, “Well, when things get better I’ll have time to do this.” There’s no such thing. You’ve got to start where you are. You’ve got to be yourself now and forever. Things will never change. Get rid of your arrogance. Develop humility. Become humble. By that I don’t mean become a door mat for people to step on. In humility there is strength. You understand the truth, therefore you do not get involved in pettiness, in nonsense. The truth shall always prevail, regardless of appearances. People were bored, then a war started. It became exciting for some people. Something to do, to get rid of their boredom. Now the war is over and they become bored again, always looking for excitement, looking for something outside of themselves. I can assure you my friends there is nothing outside of yourself. Remember the whole world is a projection of your mind. Never forget this. It is you who make the world real. The world picture is very strong in your mind, and the stronger your mind, the more real the world. This is why in all the higher teachings we are told we have to destroy the mind. What do they mean by that? The mind is known to be a conglomeration of thoughts about the past and worry about the future. That’s all the mind is. As you begin to understand your true nature, the mind settles down and goes back into the heart, where it’s supposed to rest. The heart is the Self. Therefore the mind becomes the Self. The Self is the universal. The universal is absolute reality, which results in bliss. Therefore your life can be blissful while you’re still in the body. You do not have to give up anything really. You simply have to put everything in the right perspective. You can work, you can play, you can go on vacation, you can do anything you like, but you’ll always be aware of the truth of your being, that’s all. Do not think when someone attains liberation they have to go and live in a cave and forget about the world. On the contrary, you’re in the world but not of the world. You see through appearances and you become happy. Now one of the ways of quieting the mind is chanting. It has been known for centuries that chanting makes the mind one-pointed. It works through the nervous system, bringing peace and tranquility to the mind. Then the mind disappears of its own volition. Let’s do that now, shall we? (Chanting) Anything to stop the mind from thinking. I receive mail from various parts of the world and sometimes, when I think it’s apropos, I share it with you, for many people have the same questions. We’re going to do that now, Mary. We have one of the letters from Taiwan who by the name of Andy used to come here. He now lives in Taiwan and he’s been practicing these things. This letter will describe how he’s doing. Mary: This was written on February 19th: He says: “Dear Robert, Namaskar. I’m happy to say what a joy and a precious gift it is to know you and have your presence in my life. From our first meeting I felt a warmth and friendship that I’ve continued to find companionship as well as pure shining light of my own true being. I share thanks. I am writing now with a feeling of needing to express something that has been a source of ambivalence and unclarity for quiet sometime. I often experience a subtle conflict that seems to result from infrequent but clear insights into my true nature which render all other spiritual issues irrelevant and unnecessary. In other words when the truth is clear as it often is when I hear your words or more accurately what they express there simply is no consideration of anything else. What could possibly be worth considering including the question of the truth. But this is not a living understanding my mind is mostly busy and continually dreaming. However even though these moments of living clarity are rare and elusive. Just having reference to them sort of dissipates any motivation toward spiritual action even when I desire it. This must sound quite comical to you as it does somewhat to me as I write it. That is why perhaps I have neglected to acknowledge it concretely until now. It’s always felt more worthwhile to just go back to the whole truth on whatever level it’s perceivable at the time. Knowing it’s the only reality and all else is BS. Yet here this body is feeling that the only real purpose of living is to realize fully my true nature and embody it in every breath. My day to day experience says that I’m far from this, but the echo of insight says there is nothing but this. Every time there is inquiry, every time there is meditation which is never with prescribed intention, this conclusion is quickly reached regardless of the experience of identification. Regardless of reaction, attachment, aversion these are all insubstantial appearances which are of one consciousness and to say that is, to say far too much. The meditation renders the life of Andy Kincart unworthy of consideration. I guess Robert the essence of it is doubt. The ego’s last stand, like yeah right you think you know the truth when your life is like this. But it’s not just that I don’t, don’t doubt the insight, the simple clarity is beyond doubt. It just feels like there is something more to come to fruition and it’s really not even like I desire for something to be fulfilled in the sense that I will be relieved of suffering. But I’ll read the words of Maharaj or yours, of your experience along with his or your advice on actions to do, or ways to be. But when I go through the words to the space that he or you are coming from I just feel like, why? What is being done to what? And that even feels like too much consideration to give to the issue. When I mentioned doubt, I think I was referring to the doubt of fear that my understanding is largely intellectual. Based on experiences of clarity. But even as I write this it sounds ridiculous. Why am I entertaining these silly thoughts? The understanding is all there is and there is nothing to do but to dwell in it. Well with saying that, it feels like this letter expresses through embodying some of the cyclic ambivalence that arises from me. I beg your pardon if what I’ve shared is boring and monotonous. I’ll leave you, so-to-speak, with something I just wrote a day or two ago that brought me back to the place I belong. With the understanding that all forms are of one universal being. Which is void of any existence what can be done. Can there even be anyone to carry this understanding. The truth is regardless of it’s acknowledgement through understanding. So how does the form pursue its own emptiness? See the nature of emptiness already within the form and there will be nothing to pursue. See that the seer as well and even the seeing are all empty and illusions of memory. Just be quiet and allow the light of awareness to burn away the clouds of forms in perpetual change. Only pure being is free of form and change and becoming. Just be by burning through the illusion of identified perception. The kingdom of heaven is now, simply give up all lies to the contrary. Once again the friendship which shares our being is a true joy. Andy” Robert: Now, Ed would you answer that letter for me. SE: His understanding being said. R: In essence, tell him he’s too wordy and all of his experiences are a manifestation out of his own mind. And he has to become still by going deeper within himself and if anything comes up tell him to catch himself and through self-inquiry ask, “To whom does it come?” SM: What did you want Robert? (R: That letter.) That letter? Or the other one. R: This one. And send him lesson number three. Now there’s one more if you would like to read Mary. SU: Robert didn’t it show a rather good understanding he said, I create exactly reality with regardless of the understanding, that is regardless of mind or concept or anything else so it sounds to me that it was coming from a very quiet place? R: It’s a good letter and he shows a lot of understanding but all he has to say is, “All is Well.” (SU: Regardless of the understanding?) Yes, because if you really had an understanding there is nothing to say. See that is something we all have to realize. It’s not how much profound knowledge we know intellectually. It’s how much we don’t know. We have to transcend the mind that wants to be worthy and profound. We have to go beyond that to wake up. As long as your mind is filled with beautiful poetry and beautiful quotations and profound knowledge you can never become free. The idea is to give it all up. Then in your freedom you know all these things but there is nothing to say. Would you like to read the next one? Mary: All right, do you want the letter part first then the card? R: Read the card first. (Mary: The card first, okay.) Dear Robert, Thank you so much for showing me the trust that I can have for myself and that everything is truly all right. With love and oneness Jim. And then heres a little letter from Jim also. Dear Robert, Enclosed is a cheque sent to me from Joan whom I knew ten years ago in Syracuse. She was a spiritual friend and I have been sending her your tapes. From the letters she has written to me they seem to be beautifully changing her life. If you feel inclined you could write to her. I am sure this is actually a lot of money for her to be sending. Take care love and blessings, Jim. Joan is in New York. Robert: Ed would you send her lessons 1, 2 and 3? We conduct all of our business here. (laughter) We have to understand that we do not come here to overcome a problem. We do not come here to acquire profound knowledge. We do not come here to memorize words that I say, or books that you’ve read and you memorized, the beautiful quotations, and you’re able to repeat these things. We come here to empty ourselves. It’s only when you become an empty vessel that the truth, which you really are, can shine forth. When you have too much head knowledge you keep yourself from awakening. When you have too much book knowledge, you keep yourself from awakening. This is why words are always inadequate. You are already liberated. All you really have to do is to get rid of those things that tell you you’re not. When thoughts come to you, when ideas come to you, whatever comes to you, realize that’s not what it is. Netineti, not this, not this. Reality is your real nature. You don’t have to go anywhere to find it. You don’t have to travel the world looking for teachers. All you have to do is become humble, have humility, go within, and the truth will reveal itself. It makes no difference what your condition may be. This is totally irrelevant. You can be rich or poor, sick or healthy, deformed or otherwise. Makes no difference. It has nothing to do with reality. It’s like you go and see a movie and you identify with the plot and the actors and the actresses. Then the movie ends and you’re nowhere, for you’ve spent all your energy identifying with the actors and the actresses, the roles they’re playing. This is what we do with our lives. We identify with conditions, with situations. We try to protect our interests, and that’s only ego. We have no interests. We own nothing. We come into this world with nothing, and we’re going to leave it with no thing. What you do in between birth and death determines what happens to you from thereon in. If you’re like most people and you’ve been bound by the earth, identifying yourself with earth things, believing you are the body, you’ll come back again and again as a body, until you wake up and realize it’s all a dream. You have to wake up. There’s nothing else you have to do but wake up. Forget about the world. I’m speaking of mentally. Allow your body to do what it must, but mentally forget about the body, the world. Keep your mind on your heart center. Practice self-inquiry. Become the witness to all of your movements and to all situations. Do not react to anything. Watch. Behold how the world keeps changing day after day after day. Realize that you are not the world. You are watching the world, but you have really nothing to do with the world. You are consciousness, you are the Self, this is your true nature. Identify always with the pure Self. It’s like the story of a bird who lived in a gigantic tree. The bird represents most of us, and every time it would eat sweet berries on the tree it would be cheerful and happy and sing. But when the season changed, and the berries became sour, he would stop singing and become angry. Isn’t this like us? When things appear to be going our way we say we are happy, because we are getting what we think we want. But when something does not go our way, we become despondent and angry. One day the bird was flying around the bottom of the tree and it looked up to the top branches, way far up in the air. On the top branch it saw a translucent, beautiful, gigantic bird, smiling and happy. And the little bird said, “How I wish I can be like that big bird. I’m going to fly up there and discover what makes this big bird happy.” Isn’t this like most of us? We get tired of the run around of life, and we discover some truth that we go after. But look what happens. On the way up to the big bird, when the little bird was a quarter of the way up, flying up, it saw some delicious berries on one of the branches. It therefore forgot all about the big bird, landed on the branch and started to eat the beautiful, succulent berries. When they were all finished, there was all these sour berries left. So again it became despondent. Again it’s like us. In the beginning we go after truth, after reality. But if something wonderful happens to us materially, or physically, we forget about it. We say I can go after that later when things are bad. And we get caught up in our experiences. So when the little bird became despondent enough it remembered the big bird. It looked up and there it was again, sitting so majestically on the top branch, translucent, shining, happy. And it said, “This time I’m going to go right up to the big bird and find out its secrets.” Halfway up again it saw a branch with beautiful berries and forgot about the big bird once more. Just like we. We search for truth, we read books, we see teachers. But let’s say we win the lotto, and we have a million dollars. How many of us will continue to search? Not too many, I’m afraid. We’ll get lost in riches and what they can buy for us, until the IRS comes knocking, or your relatives steal your money, or the stock markets go down, and you become despondent. That’s like the little bird eating sour berries. After it was despondent enough, again it remembered the big bird. That’s like us. When things get too bad, we start thinking about God. So again the little bird started to fly up and up and up, and this happened again and again, until when it was three quarters up and the berries became sour again, it got completely disgusted and said to itself, “I’m tired of sweet berries, I’m tired of sour berries. I’m tired of the whole game. I don’t care about anything I see on this tree again. No matter what I see on this tree, it doesn’t make any difference. I’m going straight to the big bird.” And that’s like some of us. When we’ve been kicked around by life enough we become determined to go all the way in the pursuit of truth. So the little bird started to fly closer and closer to the big bird. It bypassed all the sweet berries and the beautiful berries it saw on the tree. And the big bird became more and more translucent, and shining, and beautiful and majestic. And it finally landed right in the center of the big bird. And when it did, it found out something very interesting. It found out that it was the big bird all along. So it is with us. When we finally awaken we will realize we’ve always been awake, there never was a time when we were not, and become free. Let’s sing, “Oh God Beautiful.” (After singing Robert continues) Many people ask me is there any short method that I can use when I become depressed or disillusioned. When I start feeling out of sorts is there anything I can say besides practicing self-inquiry? Is there a little fast method some words that I can use as an affirmation? Well we don’t use affirmations because they are just the workings of the mind. But there is something you can do that is very simple and you hear me saying it all the time. You can interrupt your feelings and your mind, worries, thoughts by merely saying, “All Is well.” You hear me saying this all the time, “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” When you say, “All is well,” it contains everything that we teach. All is well means that everything is the way it should be. There are no mistakes. There is absolutely nothing wrong. No matter how things may look, no matter how things may appear, if we believe something is wrong, it’s because we misconstrue the way things really are. When you say to yourself, “All is well,” a calming effect takes place in your nervous system and you find that you become relaxed and peaceful. For in reality you are saying, “Nothing is wrong, nothing has ever been wrong and nothing will ever be wrong.” If I think it is, it’s because I don’t understand. So, “All is well.” Remember you have been brought up to believe certain things about life. How your life should be. In other words you have been brainwashed. Just about everything you believe is anti-reality. Think about your belief system. The way you think that things should be in your life. Things shouldn’t be any way in your life. Things just are, they come and they go. You have no life. You are reality. You are the Self, and that’s not a life that’s just being, pure being. Pure being is your real nature. I reiterate again. Stop looking and stop judging at appearances. Leave the world alone. Stop coming to conclusions. Do not be for or against anything. Be easy with yourself, be gentle to yourself. Catch yourself when your mind starts telling you all of these depressing things and starts worrying you. Realize that you are greater than you can ever imagine. You are God in all its essence. You are not a piece of God or a parcel of God. You are the whole. You are absolute oneness, nirvana, emptiness. You are the Self. Why not accept this? All you have to do is intellectually accept the truth and the intellect will cause it to go into the subconscious, the subconscious will go into the reality, the reality will turn into consciousness and consciousness will express itself as bliss. This means that while you appear to be wearing a body, it will be a body of bliss. Others will not see it like that. But you will not be concerned with others, for you are others. And as you see your body of bliss, of course it includes the body of the universe because your body of bliss is omnipresence. Therefore you see everything as bliss and you have unalloyed happiness, joy and peace. (tape break, tape starts abruptly with students laughing) …(laughter) You do not have to agree with me. Feel free to condemn me, to crucify me, to do whatever you please. If there is anything that needs clarification or something you don’t understand or something about your spiritual life or anything else, we’re one big happy family here. So if we get into a fist fight don’t worry. SB: Robert when you are looking up at the ceiling are you seeing the ceiling or are you absolutely not connected, your consciousness is not connected to your eyes at that time? R: I’m not aware of what I’m looking at. I’m not doing it for any reason. (SB: What are you aware of?) Of you, asking a question. I’m not aware of anything, I’m just blank. (SB: So you’re dwelling in consciousness at that time.) I’m not dwelling in anything, not even consciousness. I’m not dwelling. To dwell in consciousness there has to be somebody to dwell in it. So if there is no somebody who is to dwell in consciousness? Consciousness is your real nature but body does not dwell in it. Nothing dwells in it. Consciousness is selfcontained. Self-contained absolute reality. It is just pure being, there is no dwelling. The dweller has been destroyed. (SB: So is it like absolute release from everything?) Well again there has to be someone to be released and no one was ever born that needed to be released. There is just is-ness, pure being. (SB: It seems to be inconceivable to the mind?) We don’t care what the mind tells us. Let the mind think it’s inconceivable. Be in control of the mind, don’t let the mind be in control of you. Go beyond the mind. Ask yourself to whom does the mind come and you will realize you never had a mind to contend with. Fred’s getting cold, “It’s all in your mind Fred.” (students laugh) SJ: Robert, you used to always come out and just tell everyone to wake up. I wonder why you are not doing that as much. I think maybe that’s what we need here. R: Well when you say, “All is well,” it’s the same thing. All is well means you are absolute reality and you wake up. SG: I think we need a joke then. (R: I’ll stick your thumb in the electric fan.) (laughter) SK: Robert you mentioned something earlier that one of the things preventing getting in touch with being at home or whatever, is humbleness and removing the arrogance. In my daily life I see that pretty often lately. How my ego does not want to give up, there is not much humbleness. To be humble seems to be the hardest thing in the world to tell somebody. You know I’m really sorry, make amends and stuff like that. And that is as far as my humbleness goes. That’s what I’m dealing with it on my spiritual plane, you know. R: To be humble and to have humility, you don’t really have to apologize to anyone, but in your own mind you apologize to yourself for believing you were a person who can make another person angry. You reconcile yourself. It’s not something you do to anyone else. When you reconcile yourself with the whole universe you automatically become the living embodiment of kindness and compassion and then, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Everything will take care of itself from then on. SD: Is reconciliation the same as forgiveness or is it forgiveness so-to-speak? R: When you reconcile yourself with the universe, you are coming to terms with your own Self. (SD: Right if we come to terms with ourself is that the same as forgiving yourself?) Yes of course, because your real Self never had anything to forgive. So when you come to terms with yourself you become total joy and total bliss and all sins of omission and commission have been transcended. (SD: I guess what I’m saying is that even the word forgiving implies an ego action.) Yes it does. That is why I said in the beginning that you don’t have to tell somebody you forgive them or ask for forgiveness. (SD: That is why reconcile would be better than ask for forgiveness.) You reconcile yourself with the universe and you automatically become the truth, the reality, consciousness. SK: But would that forgiving another person in a sense be more like and ego deflating situation? I mean to do it by myself at home, I can do that, I think I can, but to do it to another is person very difficult. R: In a way like Dana said, when you ask for forgiveness or you forgive somebody else, it’s the big ego that does that because you think you are good. You say, “Now I have forgiven that person. I have asked that person to forgive me.” It’s like saying, “I can do it again and again.” But rather forget about that, but go within yourself and ask the question, “Who needs forgiveness?” And you will realize that forgiveness and your ego are synonymous. When there is no ego there is no idea of forgiveness. There is just loving kindness and compassion and everything is reconciled. And things take care of themselves. SD: So you are saying you wouldn’t have to make amends, for example? R: No, amends are from the past. Forget about the past, stay centered in the moment. (SD: So loving yourself at the moment…) Is good. (SD: …is great because you love everything.) But remember you are not loving yourself as an ego. (SD: Right.) Most people get confused when I say, “Love yourself.” They love themselves the way they are and they say, “I don’t care what anybody thinks, this is me and I’m going to stay like that. I love myself.” (students laugh) That’s the self that has been getting you in trouble. (laughter) Realize that there is a Self within you as you. That is beyond comprehension. That is God and that is the Self you love. (SD: And how could God need to forgive himself.) Exactly. SC: Robert going along with that, what about guilt? If you harmed someone in the past and is still haunting me, you know? R: It’s the same as forgiveness. When you know the truth about yourself all guilt is transcended. It’s like being born again. The past becomes dead wood. And you go forward into the new dimension, as consciousness. (SC: It just keeps nagging at me, you know?) Well you’ve got to work on yourself. You have go to ask yourself, “To whom comes this guilt?” It makes no difference what you’ve done in the past we’ve all made mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes as long as you’ve got a body then everyones made mistakes. But as you stick to the truth, as you adhere to your true nature, as you work on yourself through selfinquiry your guilt ridden self will begin to disappear and your true nature will come forward, at that time there will be no one to forgive and there will be no guilt feelings. But when you feel guilty it’s because you are identifying with the body and the body does all sorts of things. (SC: I think it’s more than that. It’s what I have done to the other person.) That was in the past, this is now. As you know the truth now, you grow out of that. But as long as you’re still thinking of yourself as a body you will be ridden with guilt feelings it will not go away. This is why it appears that nature doesn’t make us remember our past lives. You feel guilty now, can you imagine if you knew about your past life? (laughter) Then you would really commit suicide. So nature makes you forget. You’d surprised what things that you’ve done in previous existences. SD: Does suicide necessarily keep you on the karmic wheel? R: Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t. It depends from where you are coming from. (SD: What if it’s only ???) Then you will immediately return and you will have to go through it again. (SD: Is it worse for that person?) It’s about the same, depends. There are many things to consider. (SD: What would be an instance when you can transcend karma and still commit suicide? Would that just be something like a woeful leaving of the body more or less?) Well you have an understanding that karma doesn’t exist and you realize that your life has been a mess, but it’s not really you. And you have an inkling of the truth of reality, but you no longer wish to have a body. As long as you stick to the truth, at that time suicide doesn’t make any difference. (SD: Would you be like reincarnated however under those circumstances?) It depends on your realization. (SD: Umm.) How deep your realization is. (SD: But if you were fully realized it seems like you probably wouldn’t reincarnate anyway.) If you are fully realized you don’t have thoughts like that whatever because you are not a body and you have transcended the past and the future and everything else. So it’s a completely new ball game. Don’t get hung up on reincarnation and karma. For you are aware that they really do not exist. They only exist for the person who believes they are the body-mind phenomena. Do not think next time I’ll come back in a better life. Forget about that. Rather ask yourself, “To whom does this life come? To whom do these experiences come?” And get rid of everything at one time. Realize it’s the personal I that has gotten you into trouble all of these years. Follow the I thread to its source and become free. SK: Robert, I have heard what other people say, “Look at what you are not, rather than see what I am.” A process of elimination. R: Yes, that’s what we were talking about before. (SK: Trying and finding out what you are not. All is false.) Yes. You are not only not your faults but you are not your body. When you realize I am not the body I am not the world. I am not the conditioning. I am not karma I am not reincarnation. I am not my mind, I am not my blood or my heart. Whatever is left in the end is what you are. SJ: That seems like a good process because when you are left at the end you don’t know what it is anyway. You’ve negated everything and you are left with yourself and you don’t ever really know what anything is. Sounds a very good process. R: It’s good to work on that but there is so much to negate you never finish. (students laugh) (SJ: So what would you do?) You keep going and going and going it never ends. I am not a leaf, I am not a worm, I am not a cockroach. It’s easier to follow the personal I because all these things that you are not are attached to the I thread and as you go following the personal I to the source and you ask, “Who am I?” Everything falls away and you become free. SL: Why is the world not interested in these teachings? R: The world is the world and if you look at the evolution of the planets. This planet if you go by astrology and you go into those things — that don’t exist — this planet is equivalent to a third grade schooling and beings are just running around doing all kinds of mischief. So they are interested in the world and worldly things, not in reality. Leave the world alone, find out who you are and then you won’t be interested in what the world is or isn’t because there will be no world for you. SD: Robert I can — at least it lets me understand rather that I am not the body and perhaps not with the mind but where does personality fit in, or these traits or the compilation of experiences that individualizes a person? R: Personality is the ego. Your personality is you, as an ego. It is a combination of all the things you’ve been through and all the things you know as an ego. (SD: It’s easier for me to realize that, “I am not a body,” but I’m not used to, “I am not the ego.”) You are not the person. The person is the ego. When you follow the I thread back to the source the ego is attached to the I. The I and the ego are synonymous. So when you look at the I and you hold on to the I and go to its source the whole thing will go away, the ego, the personality. You become your radiant Self. (SD: Is that how the ego is afraid of annihilation because I think we all have to get lost in the same routine?) Well of course the ego is afraid of annihilation. The ego mind is very powerful and it will fight you at every inch so that you do not destroy it. This is why it’s usually only through self-inquiry that the mind is used to get rid of the mind. Other methods usually enhance the strength of the mind. They make you think that you are powerful and that you’ve got siddhi’s and you can do all kinds of things. It increases the power of the mind. It makes you into an ego maniac. So this is why we don’t want to develop siddhi’s, powers, occult knowledge. We want to transcend all of these things and become free and liberated. And the best way for doing this is to ask yourself, “To whom do these things come? Who wants powers? Who wants to rule others?” ST: Robert, the same thing with virtue, is that correct? R: The same thing with virtue, that’s correct. Virtue and non-virtue are two sides of the same coin. Virtue comes from the mind, it’s from your upbringing that you say, “I am virtuous because I live this kind of a life.” Get rid of all the concepts, all the preconceived ideas about virtue and non-virtue. They’ve all got to go to become free. If you think you are virtuous, you think you are proud. They are both of your mind, makes your ego stronger. I’m a virtuous person I don’t drink. I don’t fool around, I do nothing I’m boring. (students laugh) All those concepts have to go. Another good form of meditation is in relaxing yourself and saying to yourself, “I, I.” What you are really saying is, “I Am That I Am.” But you are shortening it, you are saying, “I, I.” Let’s try that now shall we? Make yourself comfortable and relax. Become happy within yourself. Listen to your breath and with your respiration say, “I, I.” You inhale you say, “I” you exhale you say, “I.” And notice how good you begin to feel, it happens very fast… (tape ends)