Transcript:
Robert:
So really, we’ve got lots of wrong reasons for coming here. This is Satsang. There really should be no talk, no lecture.
You come here to meditate, to observe yourself, to observe your thoughts and actions. To see what’s going on within yourself. I am yourself. Therefore, when you observe yourself correctly, you see I am.
In this body is not a lecturer. This body is not a minister. This body is not even a talker.
I do so for your sake. But if the average person comes here for the first time, I would be most boring, because I speak in a monotone and I reiterate many things over again. You have to understand what Satsang really means.
It means being in the presence of your own divinity. Being in the presence of your own consciousness. Do not look at me as something separate from you. Most public speakers, ministers, philosophers, they plan their speech, they research it all week, they come prepared, and when they leave, everybody says, what a wonderful talk.
But nothing happens. You feel good for the moment. When you go home, you revert right back to your old self.
If you know the true reason why you’re coming here, it will make a tremendous difference in your life. You’re coming here to awaken, to awaken from the dream of maya, the dream of a personal I. You’re coming here to find peace, happiness, to awaken to your real nature.
Therefore, your being here is a meditation in itself. The modality I use to help you is silence, not words. There are no weekend seminars.
There are no special mantras. There is no initiation. There is nothing.
That nothing is everything. You believe you are the doer. And everything you accomplish, you think that you did it.
That’s a lie. You don’t even exist. You weren’t even born.
How can you be the doer? There is no one who does anything. And yet, everything gets done.
That’s a paradox. Everything gets done because you believe you’re the doer. When you realize you’re not the doer, everything gets done in a better way, for you stop identifying with the object and the subject.
You become free of all attachment. As long as you believe that you’re responsible for anything that takes place in this world, you have a problem. You will have to go through that experience over and over and over again until you realize that you have absolutely nothing to do with anything.
You are pure consciousness. Your real self is absolute reality. I tell you, you have nothing to do with this world.
I know some of you are saying, then why am I here? Well, in reality, you’re not here. Where are you?
Nowhere. And everywhere. Some of you say, well, I want to experience all the happiness I can while I’m here.
Then you come under the law of karma and duality, which means you go up and down like a yo-yo. When you get what you want, you become happy. When your possessions are taken from you, you become disillusioned, and you cry.
Then you get what you want again, you become happy. When change comes along, you become angry. This is like a person who goes into the hot sun when the temperature is 100 degrees and gets burnt and then runs under the shade of a tree.
But after a while, when he’s cool, he forgets the hot sun, goes back into the sun and gets burnt again, then takes refuge under the tree again, forgets about the sun, how hot it is, and goes back into the sun, gets burnt again, then runs under the tree again. As you can see, only a fool would run into the sun and get burnt and then back into the shade and then back into the sun. Yet that’s exactly what we do with our lives.
We believe erroneously that person, place and thing bring us happiness. There is no thing external to you that can ever bring you happiness. Why?
Because happiness is your very nature. You are happiness all by yourself. When you go after happiness outside of yourself, you have to know that it’s a temporary condition, as many of you have so experienced.
You can’t wait to see this certain movie. You’ve been waiting for it to come around, and here it is. So you pay your five dollars and you see the movie and you’re happy, but then it’s over.
What now? Now you’ve got to look for another thrill. You believe you’ve got to find something to make you happy.
So you search and you scheme and you plan and sure enough you get it. That lasts for a time. Then it must change as all things change and you become disillusioned again.
You haven’t learnt your lesson. You’re still looking for happiness and joy outside of yourself. Again, it’s like going back into the sun, getting real burnt and then running into the shade and then going back into the sun again.
You do this again and again and again and you never learn. Pretty soon you’re old and tired and it’s time to leave your body. So the disillusionment still continues.
You feel and you say to yourself, “well, now I’ll find real peace when I leave my body. I’m finished with this rat race.” But no, because there’s nowhere to go.
If you believe that you’re the body then there are many bodies. When you drop one, you take up another and you continue the game of hide and seek. It never ends.
Until one day you become so disgusted with the world and with life that something within you leads you to the right book or the right teacher or the right something. And you begin to feel that there’s something else. So you become a seeker after truth.
You begin to read many books. You discover there’s something like Zen Buddhism, different forms of Buddhism. There’s the Tao.
There’s mystical Christianity. There’s the Kabbalah. Yoga.
Various forms. Hatha, Raja, Karma yoga. You get involved in occult subjects, astrology, numerology, whatever.
And you think you’ve discovered something. You go life after life after life being involved in those things. Yet if you’re a true seeker, something else will touch you and you will discover a guru, a teacher, who is just right for you at the time and you will become a disciple.
Yet you will still have doubts and apprehensions. You will turn off and on like a [wordless] person. You will stick to the same philosophy for a while.
Zen Buddhism. You will read about all the Zen teachers available and you will go to Tibet to find one, to Japan, to stay in a Zen dojo, you will run to the Himalayas. You will read all the Zen books you can find, which will keep coming back to this one teacher.
And that’s what makes you a disciple. Again, this goes on incarnation after incarnation. Yet if you’re really sincere, something will touch you and you will realize I and my Father are one.
If you have seen me, you have seen the Father. You will begin to feel that you are one with your teacher, that the teacher is within you and without you. The teacher within you pushes you forward and the teacher without you pushes you inward.
You begin to understand that the only thing you have to do is to get rid of the idea that you are the body-mind phenomena. Thus you become a devotee, which means you become one-pointed, interested in one path. You ultimately become the path and you awaken.
Most people, of course, never even get to the point where they become a seeker. But we don’t look at most people, do we? Again, many think that a path like this is selfish.
For instead of trying to help the world, instead of trying to make this a better world in which to live, we’re only interested in our own awakening. But the truth is, unless you really awaken, you can never make this world a better place in which to live. Why?
Due to the fact that you are the universe, right now, just the way you are. Therefore, if you’re filled with anger, animosity, greed, avarice, and the rest of those things, so is the world. You have created the world.
The world is an emanation of your own mind. What you think of yourself, you think of the world. If you’re filled with fear, then the world frightens you.
If you’re filled with greed, you believe everyone else is greedy. The world is a reflection of you. That’s all it is.
When you awaken, you see a new world. You’re in heaven. When you awaken, you realize the real self transcends the universe, and the world is like a dream. It exists, but as a dream. The self or consciousness is the reality, and I am that.
I am doesn’t mean Robert, and you know what I’m talking about. I AM is consciousness, absolute reality. Therefore, when you awaken, you can state, I am that.
You’re no longer talking about your individual I. You’re speaking of the whole universe. I AM That.
Now everyone becomes that also. Remember, I AM is omnipresence. I am That.
This is why a realized person can only see himself or herself. They do not see what other people see. They see love, harmony, peace, joy, happiness.
Simply because they have discovered their real nature as happiness, pure awareness, absolute reality. They no longer are the personal I. They have risen.
You’re no longer going into the sun getting burnt and then going back into the shade tree. These people are always under the shade tree. No thing external can ever happen to them again, as in birth or death or in between.
The universe does not prevail for them. For they are egoless. That’s how you bring peace into the world.
If you go back in time, there have been people trying to make this a peaceful world from time immemorial. No one has ever succeeded. It is the nature of this planet to be what it is.
No matter how you try to improve it, it will never happen. Why does it seem sometimes as if the planet is improving? Because of time and space.
It will improve to a certain degree, and then people will start talking about the golden age, so forth. Yet we’ll only go so far. Then we’ll start to regress again and go back into the dark ages.
This is the dream of maya. When you identify with the body, mind, or the world, and you believe that you are the doer, you keep coming back again, and back again, and back again, at different phases of the world’s evolution. You may come back in the dark ages, during the Inquisition, be tortured.
You may come back during a sort of golden age period, where there’s more harmony and peace in the world. Yet you’re living in a life of duality, which means you have to experience both. So you go back and forth, back and forth.
Again, like the man going into the sun, getting burned, going into the shade, and back into the sun. It never ends. And let me remind you again, there are too many people I speak to that are suffering, and they say, well, soon I’ll give up my body and I’ll find peace.
As the story goes, when you leave your body, you do take a vacation. You take a rest, where you review all of your karmic activities. Remember, all of these things I’m telling you is a lie.
I’m telling you these things because you want to hear it. And as long as you identify with the body, it’s true. Or it appears to be true.
You take a rest. Then you either pulled back, or you go back voluntarily into another body. And you continue the game.
Until you get sick and tired. As I mentioned previously, when you get sick and tired of the game, you become a seeker of Truth. And you evolve that way.
The question, therefore, is what to do. How do you begin? You begin by taking a good look at yourself and reviewing your life in retrospect.
Asking yourself, who has gone through all of these experiences? And you will realize I have. You will start to think, when I was a little boy or girl, I had such and such an experience.
When I grew into a teenager, I had such and such an experience. But you’re always referring to the first pronoun, “I”. You’re saying I had the experience when I was a little girl or boy.
And I’m having my experiences now in life. Something within yourself will make you think, it’s always “I”. I always return to “I”.
“I” had this experience, “I” had that experience. “I” was born. “I” went to school.
“I” went to sleep. “I” got married, “I” got divorced. Always “I”.
Who is this elusive “I”? And where does it come from? How does it arise?
It doesn’t exist when I’m sleeping. It’s only when I wake up I start thinking of I. At that time I can say I slept.
Where does it go to when I go to sleep? It doesn’t appear to be around. You begin to feel that all of your problems, concern themselves with the I.
So you say to yourself, well if I get rid of this I, everything else will go also. And that’s true. You therefore start looking for ways to get rid of the I.
You begin to understand the only way to get rid of this I is to question it. Where did you come from, I? Who gave you birth?
And to follow it to its source. So you ask yourself the question, what is this I? Where did it come from?
Who am I? If you are sincere, you will follow the I to its source, which is the Self. The I, or the personality, will therefore dissolve into the Self.
This is called awakening. People give names to this. It’s called moksha, liberation, self-realization, reality.
People attach all kinds of names to it. All you’ve really done is to become yourself. That’s all.
There’s nothing mysterious about it. You do not have to repeat sacred mantras or go to certain schools of ancient philosophy. Everything you’re looking for is within yourself.
There are people who always come to me and they ask me, “Robert, we should get together with the people who have been with you for a long while and have a special class where you can give us the highest teachings.”
There are no higher teachings. This is it. What else is there?
Destroy the I and become free. So, Satsang is when you come to a place like this and you’re not wondering what I’m going to talk about. You have not come to hear me speak.
It’s a place where you come to meditate, to awaken, to see me within yourself. So, I am yourself. If you can only remember this, you will stop running all over the place looking for lecturers and listening to speakers.
The proper thing to do is to find somebody you have an affinity with, a teaching, someone who does not talk too much, and you just sit and everything will take care of itself. So, as I said in the beginning, I wasn’t going to talk too much, and I did. It always happens.
And the reason I do is because most of you want to hear me talk. But the day is going to come when you come in here and I won’t say a word. Then we’ll see what you do.
Any questions?
Student
So, why do you talk?
Robert
Who knows?
Because I feel that most of the people here come to hear what I’ve got to say. So, I try to explain certain things. But I try to emphasize over and over again talking is not going to do it.
It may inspire you for a while. It may give you a good feeling. But as you already know, when you leave here, as soon as you get to the car, you revert back to yourself.
And you start thinking who you’re going to listen to tomorrow. That’s called the seeker, as I explained before. And that’s good to an extent.
But it will not awaken you. And the only time you will awaken is when you realize I am myself. I have always been myself.
There’s only one Self. That Self is called Satchitananda, Parabrahman, Absolute Reality, and I am that. When you say, I am That, it will include everyone.
The whole universe. That’s the time you will awaken.
If you do not understand what I’ve been talking about, ask some questions if you want.
Student
So, Robert, the reincarnation is an illusion?
Robert
The incarnation never existed, and it never will exist. But it appears to exist. You cannot deny it if you believe you are the body.
As long as you believe you are the mind or the body, and as long as you believe in the world, that the world is a reality, then so is the incarnation. That’s an interesting question because there are many people who say, I don’t believe in reincarnation. I’m not going to accept it.
Yet they accept that they are the body. Therefore, why should there be only one body? If you are accepting that you are the body, then there can be two bodies, four bodies, twelve bodies, a hundred bodies, a thousand bodies.
Why only one? And that’s what reincarnation is all about. You are causing it to yourself by your erroneous belief that you are the body.
Therefore, you don’t deny reincarnation. You ask yourself the question, to whom does it come? And you will realize yourself that it comes to your body, not to you.
You have absolutely nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3
So since it’s not I having to do everything, I have to not to worry?
Robert
Well, it’s easy to say not to worry. Do the first calamity that comes along, do you worry or not? Firstly, you should see yourself. As long as things are going your way, and you’re relatively happy, because you’ve got what you want, what if everything stops for you? Will you still be happy? Will you not worry? It’s easy to say, don’t worry, be happy. But how many of us can do that? We only do it when things are going our way.
Speaker 7
Even if we could not worry and be happy, what good is that?
Robert
You are realizing yourself when you are not worrying and being happy. You’re into bliss. Into harmony and joy. [Interuption in audible] No, that has nothing to do with ego. When you’re in the ego state, you cannot possibly be completely happy. Because your happiness is dependent on things. See what I’m saying, Jerry?
Speaker 7
If you’re just happy, if you’re a blissful state, there’s got to be more. It seems like there should be much more than just bliss?
Robert
Well, who asks the questions? Remember, you’re asking the questions from you’re a viewpoint. But when you experience real bliss, you become the universe. The creator. God. Love. It’s a completely different ballgame. You become self-contained happiness. And since you’re omnipresent, there’s no comparison you can make. Because all of your comparisons have been transcended.
Speaker 4
So on a relative level, even more than just…It’s very hard between the absolute level and ultimate. Relative level is such a thin line. But I’ve been trained in a sense to…that there’s much more than just bliss. In other words, if you’re just sitting in your own bliss and you cannot come out of that to… What more is there?
Robert
When I speak about bliss, I’m referring to absolute reality, to consciousness. You become an instrument of love in the world. Of peace. Your very presence causes harmony and peace to people. Your very presence is a blessing to the whole universe. Because you are the universe. It has nothing to do with human understanding and human knowledge. And it has absolutely nothing to do with human bliss or human happiness. It’s beyond comprehension.
Speaker 4
Then Ramana was a doer?
Robert
On the contrary. Ramana Maharshi didn’t do anything himself.
Speaker 4
Yea…yea, things happened.
Robert
[In audible word] didn’t have anything to do with it.
Speaker 4
Well, you can deny anything you want to other people that experience such things.
Robert
So they believe it’s because of him. It’s their belief that makes it happen.
Speaker 4
I don’t know. Things happen without them thinking that this was going to happen. As far as I know. I don’t know factual.
Robert
Well, for being in the presence of a sage, all kinds of things can happen.
Speaker 4
So just as someone might get up and go to the bathroom, a sage might wink his eye, then maybe spontaneously some other something could occur that an outsider would take as a power, a demonstration of power.
Robert
Yes, but a sage says nothing purposely.
Speaker 2
Right, so in that way, a power can be demonstrated spontaneously without the sage being the doer.
Robert
Well, the sage does not have any power to demonstrate. But I understand what you’re saying, it happens like that.
Speaker 2
Yes, so that’s how it would occur. If one really had real strong faith, and real strong faith in all of this, then rain or shine, roof or no roof, food or no food, they would just be dedicated to realizing the Self.
Robert
You cannot make it that simple. It has to do with God’s grace, which is always available. And you awaken to that Grace. You can’t influence it.
Speaker 6
Were you a student of Nisargadatta Maharaj?
Robert
I wasn’t a student of his, but I was with him.
Speaker 6
Are you also familiar with Singh [inaudible word]?
Robert
No, I don’t know him.
Speaker 2
You knew Nisargadatta directly?
Robert
I knew Nisargadatta.
Speaker 2
Did you spend much time with him?
Robert
Six months.
Speaker 2
Six months?
Continuously?
Robert
Yes.
Speaker 5
Was that before you were with Udaya Maharshi?
Robert
No, that was after.
Speaker 2
After. What kept you there for six months?
Robert
I was interested.
Speaker 2
In what?
Robert
In watching his actions. I was there in Basako [as an interpreter].
Speaker 2
Ah.
What was your conclusion after watching his reactions?
Robert
My conclusion is all is well. And everything is unfolding as it should.
Speaker 2
[Slight chuckle] Only me and Gautam, that covers it. When you want to end the conversation. [Laughter]
Speaker 3
When we were talking about not doing anything, even we really don’t do anything, I wondered if anybody else has been able to look back after talking with you [Robert], look back over their lives and see that really, we didn’t cause anything to happen.
Robert
Well, ask everyone else.
Speaker 3
It all seems like a miracle looking back. I don’t believe in luck, especially, you say in fate or something. But it seems if one believes in good luck, then they have to believe in bad luck.
Robert
Find out who the I is who wants to believe in anything at all.
Speaker 3
Mmm. But is that true about…do you know that about all of us, Robert, that we really don’t do anything in our lives?
Robert
I only know myself, and you are myself. Therefore, you are absolute reality, pure intelligence, emptiness, nirvana, ultimate fullness, consciousness, Parabrahman.
Speaker 6
But you cannot see her personality or my personality, can you?
Robert
I don’t look at personalities.
Speaker 6
So that’s your answer, you cannot see it. If you wish to, can you see it or not?
Robert
Look at it this way. You take a screen and you put images on the screen. The images keep changing. They have all kinds of personalities. But the screen remains the screen. If you try to grab the images, you grab the screen. So I feel like the screen and the world and its images are superimposed upon the screen. I see everything, but they’re not real to me.
Speaker 6
But you do see everything.
Robert
Yes.
Speaker 6
So in other words, you have access to my life story. If you wanted to, you could see my life as it is.
Robert
No, I can’t.
Speaker 6
You cannot?
Robert
No. Because there would have to be somebody to see that. And there’s nobody left to see anything.
Speaker 2
Spend a few days over at Robert’s house. You’ll get this.
Speaker 6
I’m grateful.
Speaker 5
I hear, of course, a lot of conversation and sometimes I think I talk too much. But I’m glad that I’m selfish in a particular way and I want to be even more selfish in that particular way. And I want to be more selfish in doing what I need to do concerning myself about myself rather than anything else. So that works get done.
Robert
Concern yourself only with the understanding that you are not the I.
Speaker 6
Yeah, I see me. That’s what I mean by the selfish. Like the selfishness that she [heard].
Long pause in conversation
Student 7
A lot of people from different spiritual backgrounds came to Ramana and they had things going on or difficulties in whatever path or practice they were doing, was he able to help them?
Robert
He never helped anybody voluntarily, he simply sat on his couch and everybody was doing whatever they wanted to do. And he asked a couple of questions now and again and kept silent most of the time.
Speaker 7
That was it.
Robert
When people used to come to him with all kinds of problems, he would look at his attendant and he would say, They come to me and want to me help them with their problems, to whom shall I go? With mine.
Speaker 3
That makes me a little confused.
Robert
He was not the door.
Speaker 3
All right. Well, so I don’t care if he wasn’t the doer. Fine.
But there’s a body [rise…*in audible]
Robert
How can you how can you help people with problems? He’s not a psychologist.
Speaker 3
I know someone who’s not a doer. And someone came to them and had some kind of problem in their practice dealing with a part of their body. And lo and behold, the person’s body went up and performed some kind of function to the outside eye.
And that person was helped in their practice.
Robert
By his very presence, people were helped.
Speaker 3
Is it true that he taught through silence?
Robert
Yes, very true. He was silent most of the time.
Speaker 3
That was his central teaching.
Robert
Yes. And people got all kinds of things out of his silence. Just by sitting in his presence, all their troubles vanished.
With some people. Not with all people, with some people. There were others who came in to see him and they left and they said, he’s just an old man.
I saw nothing.
Speaker 6
What is that feeling you feel?
Robert
What do you mean?
Speaker 6
Well, when you seem to be in the presence of someone, you seem to feel something.
Robert
You’re feeling your real self, your own bliss, joy, happiness. That’s beyond words.
Speaker 3
The feeling changes from being in the presence of a different teacher.
Robert
What’s that?
Speaker 3
Well, the feeling’s different in the presence of different teachers, to me.
Robert
Yea, it’s like confusion. Because you get this feeling, then you get that feeling, you get this feeling, then that feeling. Because you never really change.
The whole idea is to get a feeling to go deep within yourself. And a real sage gives you this feeling that you want to dive deep within yourself, deeper than you’ve ever gone before. And you do, and you become free.
Speaker 6
So this feeling is, in a way, kind of a demonstration. You feel that feeling, then you go away. You want to have more, indeed, dive within yourself, and you have it no matter where you are.
Robert
You want to hold on to that, yes. And you hold on to it by practicing self-enquiry.
Speaker 2
Could you please tell me something about Sufu? Is that a genuine practice to worship God, or is it just a…
Robert
I’m not so familiar with this, so I can’t explain it to you all. All practices that lead to God are good.
Speaker 5
I won’t answer your question about Sufu, but I met Pak Sufu once, you know. And what I experienced at that time is totally beyond words. The only words I know is the Biblical words, the peace that passes understanding.
That’s a very faint explanation of what I experienced when I passed him by.
Robert
What happened after that?
Speaker 5
Nothing, I guess. I knew he was supposed to be in that house that day, but just the same…
Robert
What happened to your feeling? Did it go away?
Speaker 5
Oh, yeah.
Robert
Why?
Speaker 5
Don’t ask me. It wasn’t permanent.
Speaker 3
Don’t all feelings go away?
Robert
Well, he was speaking of an exalted spiritual feeling.
Speaker 3
Those come and go, too.
Robert
They come and go, but why do they go? Because we’re not doing the right things. There’s something about our practice that is limiting us.
We should therefore dive deeper within ourselves.
Speaker 3
Is it ever a question of not practice?
Robert
What do you mean?
Speaker 3
Meaning we’re not doing something right with our practice. Could it be that we’re not doing enough? Enough practice?
Robert
That’s possible.
Speaker 3
My teacher told me if I ever was unhappy, just do so much more practice. And he was right.
Robert
For some people that’s true, for some people it’s not. You cannot pinpoint it.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I understand.
Robert
You cannot say it’s this or that. Everybody’s different. But everyone exists.
Find out who exists.
Speaker 3
So a teacher we’re in the presence of is touching something within ourselves. And it could be a different aspect. And maybe that’s why we feel a different feeling?
Robert
That’s true. It’s up to you to dive deeper than you ever did before. And become totally free.
Speaker 2
There is a saying about the music of the spheres. Are you capable of hearing that kind of music?
Robert
Again, there has to be somebody left to see spheres and hear spheres. All the music of the spheres is of the mind. All phenomena comes from the mind.
Get rid of the mind and it will all stop.
Speaker 2
Okay. You’re talking now. That’s phenomena too.
How does that go together with your all-pervasive consciousness and your mind talking?
Robert
The body talks. The body acts. The body does what it came here to do.
But I have nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2
Can the body hear the music of the spheres?
Robert
No.
Speaker 2
It cannot.
Speaker 3
If it came to my house, it could.
Robert
You’ve got a tape?
Speaker 3
I have a CD. *In audible cross talking laughter*
Speaker 4
Some of these questions may have to do something with so-called Siddhas. What’s exactly a Siddha? Is he an enlightened being who got the illusion?
Robert
A Siddha is a person who’s been working with Kundalini. And the Kundalini has risen. And powers have developed. But a Siddha is not a sage.
Speaker 3
Actually, that is a limited understanding of the term, Robert.
Robert
Okay, explain this one.
Speaker 3
Siddha means perfection. And someone who’s perfected is considered a Siddha. And I think it’s been…
Muktananda, since he was… they called it Siddha Yoga and all that kind of stuff, and they related it to Kundalini. But in that way, someone could be called a Siddha in a particular tradition, so to speak, or attainment, like a Siddha Bhakti, or a Siddha Jnani, or something like that.
But Siddha means perfected.
Robert
So it’s semantics. Forget about Siddhas, forget about everything. Find your true self and become free.
Speaker 4
People were attracted to this business of powers, clairaudience, clairvidence, whatever you call it. And they equalled that with enlightenment, or with sagehood. That was the reason of my question.
I think those… It’s a question of semantics. I think Siddha is, as Gary says, also perfection.
But there are also so-called Siddhas, which tend to gather and tend to manipulate kind of powers in order to impress their disciples. And I don’t think those are sages, or… I don’t know if I’m right.
Robert
This is true. That’s why I told you to not go after the Siddhas. Do not follow the Siddhas.
Follow the I and become free.
Speaker 2
So you’re saying the Kundalini is not worthwhile to go after?
Robert
In my opinion, anything that leads to powers is dangerous because it keeps the earth bound. Bypass them, go beyond them. It is true that as we evolve, we do develop Siddhas.
But the Upanishads and other spiritual works tell you to go beyond. And not to get caught. Go beyond everything.
The example I use is that the king invites you to his mansion, to his kingdom, to share the kingdom with him. But he has 200 acres of beautiful property. And when you drive through the gates, you see the beautiful flowers, and you become interested in agriculture.
You forget about the king. Then a few years later, you remember, and you start driving towards the king again. But now you see beautiful mountains and beautiful shrubbery and beautiful dancing girls, and you get involved with that, forgetting about the king.
Each thing you get involved in is a Siddha, a power. But if you go straight to the king, you’ll share the kingdom. That’s the difference.
Speaker 2
You said that your body is acting, and on the other hand you say that you are all pervasive. Aren’t you the body that wants?
Robert
I tell you my body is acting for your sake. Because that’s how you see it. In reality, no one is acting and no one exists.
The body does not exist.
Speaker 2
No one is acting, no one exists. Why does it all happen?
Robert
It doesn’t. It occurs to me.
Speaker 2
It doesn’t happen at all?
Robert
No.
Speaker 2
So in other words, God didn’t create anything?
Robert
There is no God’s created thing.
Speaker 2
Nothing is created by God?
Robert
No.
Speaker 2
But yet he makes it all possible.
Robert
There is no God to make anything possible.
Speaker 2
No?
Robert
No.
Speaker 2
I thought that God is perfect.
Robert
No. As long as you separate yourself from God, God does not exist.
Speaker 2
Well, I’m only a part, a portion of God, in a sense.
Robert
Then you remain a person. But in reality, there is no creation, there is no God, there is no realization, there is no illusion, there is consciousness.
Speaker 2
Now, what I’m trying to get to is, why is there such a big universe? It’s not just because of me. When I would vanish, there is still a whole universe left.
Right?
Robert
That’s how you see it.
Speaker 2
So, but isn’t there a fundamental I-ness, like you say, or we all say God, which is undivided, which is perfect. Right? Is that correct?
Robert
There is nothing apart from you.
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, let’s forget me for now. I’m saying that…
Robert
So, if we forget you, we forget everything else, too.
Speaker 2
No.
Robert
Because if you don’t exist, nothing else exists.
Speaker 2
It’s only my point of view.
Robert
When you go to sleep, and you sleep, what exists for you?
Speaker 2
My point of view. But all the rest point of views are… We know that there are hierarchies, and minor creations are…
Robert
You never [*don’t or doubt] It just appears like that.
Speaker 2
It just appears. But the appearance is enough for us to be in illusion.
Robert
Because you believe you are the body.
Speaker 2
Well, I don’t have another choice. I don’t have a choice besides… You know, when I wake up, I’m in the body.
Robert
That’s not a choice to you.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I have no choice.
Robert
Well, why don’t you ask yourself, to whom does it come?
Speaker 2
Pardon me again?
Robert
Ask yourself, to whom does the body come?
Speaker 2
To me.
Robert
Ask yourself.
Speaker 2
When I wake up, I’m in the body.
Robert
When you wake up, the sky is blue.
Speaker 2
No.
Robert
But if you go and investigate, the sky is not blue. It’s an illusion.
Speaker 2
The illusion part, yeah. This is something that…
Robert
Everything you’re telling is an illusion. But you think it’s real because you identify with it.
Speaker 2
Do I have a choice? I don’t.
Robert
Sure you do.
Speaker 2
It doesn’t seem to me.
Robert
Well, find out if you do.
Speaker 2
Well, I’ve been trying, but there is no choice. When I wake up, I’m in this mind. And that’s it.
Robert
Well, that’s how it appears to you. You have to ask yourself, to whom does the mind come? Who feels this way?
Speaker 2
It comes to me when I wake up.
Robert
Who’s me?
Speaker 2
Me. Who’s me? It’s my individuality.
My point of view.
Robert
Hold on to that point of view. To me, I.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s all I have, my point of view.
Robert
Follow the point of view. I. The point of view is I.
My. Follow that to the source. And your point of view will disappear.
Speaker 2
But you do agree that there is creation.
Robert
No.
Speaker 2
No.
Robert
Consciousness is a word that’s used to describe beyond phenomena. Emptiness. You cannot go beyond that with your finite mind.
The finite mind cannot comprehend the infinite. But you can experience it.
Speaker 2
Are you totally happy right now?
Robert
[Long Pause of 1min and 30 seconds]. Yes… Yes…. I’ve got a process to share with you. Can somebody bring me the bag?
[End of Audio]